Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Sil

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 23, 2015, 00:41   #1
Fendell Orcbane
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington state USA
Posts: 460
Fendell Orcbane is on a distinguished road
How does weapon weight help overcome protection ?

So my last character had both Calris and Aeglos...Calris was +18, i forgot the dice ) and Aeglos was (+22,1d16) but they both put out equal damage...yet Ancient serpents were laughing Aeglos off as were all the high protection monsters. Yet Calris was actually killing Kemrauko's once I got my Melee up to 16 or so. Why is that, I never noticed anything different in the combat rolls. I also feel like a straight Melee build will need a heavier weapon at some point to win, even if you have Demerlith and high Melee.
So what is the story ?
Fendell Orcbane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 03:12   #2
debo
Veteran
 
debo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,356
debo is on a distinguished road
Yes it's because ancient serpents are ridiculous.

Kemenrauko have pretty bad evasion and only 4d4 prot -- the ancient serpents are quite a bit more dodgy, and have 5d4 or 6d4. Heavy weapons are supposed to work, but they really mostly don't (unless you like getting breathed on a dozen times before finally killing one.)

Did you have charge?
__________________
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'
debo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 03:14   #3
debo
Veteran
 
debo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,356
debo is on a distinguished road
Also, I think sapphire S are the most common ones, which aeglos is incredibly bad against.
__________________
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'
debo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 09:24   #4
taptap
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 710
taptap is on a distinguished road
not sure why common serpents are a problem when you have both a fire-branded and a cold-branded weapon. if you play without abilities melee ends with a heavy weapon, yes, but imo you underestimate light weapons when combined with appropriate abilities (i.e. subtlety, assassination, slaying, concentration ...).

Last edited by taptap; January 23, 2015 at 09:53.
taptap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 15:08   #5
debo
Veteran
 
debo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,356
debo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by taptap View Post
appropriate abilities (i.e. subtlety, assassination, slaying, concentration ...).
Only the first two of those are reasonable to consistently use against ancient serpents, and only if you are lucky or have completely based your build around them. Subtlety is not exactly an ability that you take to deal with a specific threat.
__________________
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'
debo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 15:14   #6
bagori nd
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 56
bagori nd is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by debo View Post
Only the first two of those are reasonable to consistently use against ancient serpents, and only if you are lucky or have completely based your build around them. Subtlety is not exactly an ability that you take to deal with a specific threat.
I'd be interested to hear why you think this about Concentration. I feel like it helps my medium/heavy characters against serpents a lot.
bagori nd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 15:53   #7
debo
Veteran
 
debo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,356
debo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagori nd View Post
I'd be interested to hear why you think this about Concentration. I feel like it helps my medium/heavy characters against serpents a lot.
What is your con? How many times can you afford to whiff-whiff-whiff waiting to build up sufficient bonus while getting breathed on and elemental-bitten? I actually think charge is a much better option if you have a heavy weapon and a reasonable amount of base strength already, because at least then you can try to dart in and escape as necessary to retry (esp. with sprinting)
__________________
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'
debo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 17:11   #8
taptap
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 710
taptap is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by debo View Post
Only the first two of those are reasonable to consistently use against ancient serpents, and only if you are lucky or have completely based your build around them. Subtlety is not exactly an ability that you take to deal with a specific threat.
it was just a laundry list of accuracy increasing or otherwise critical hits enabling abilities, not specifically against S. still, delmereth, shortsword of galadriel etc. are perfectly capable endgame weapons imho.

also: sharpness. song of sharpness used to be the pick of choice when keeping a one-handed weapon in the depth. less powerful now, but against ancient serpents? the sharp daggers (or anything else with sharpness) may do wonders as well. (nargil or especially angrist)
taptap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 21:11   #9
Fendell Orcbane
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington state USA
Posts: 460
Fendell Orcbane is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by taptap View Post
it was just a laundry list of accuracy increasing or otherwise critical hits enabling abilities, not specifically against S. still, delmereth, shortsword of galadriel etc. are perfectly capable endgame weapons imho.

also: sharpness. song of sharpness used to be the pick of choice when keeping a one-handed weapon in the depth. less powerful now, but against ancient serpents? the sharp daggers (or anything else with sharpness) may do wonders as well. (nargil or especially angrist)
I am with debo on this. Man I was hitting those S's a bunch of times and sometimes the charge would take them down and other times not. I just think that its crazy that I need a heavy weapon to get anywhere. Hell, I haven never gotten Demerlith without a heavy weapon. Unless I had sharpness.
Really I just wonder what the math is on the heavy weapons. Like what rolls are going on that let the heavy weapons get thru where a lighter more accurate weapon won't.
Fendell Orcbane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23, 2015, 21:56   #10
bagori nd
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 56
bagori nd is on a distinguished road
Yeah, I mostly play tough elves who can afford to whiff for a while. (I'm sure it'd be different with humans, etc.)

I usually take Charge too, actually, though I find Charge and Concentration can complement each other more than one might think, since lots of the situations where the former strikes me as least helpful (uniques and other high-HP enemies, drag-out fights with little room to maneuver) are ones where the latter shines.

(otoh, unless I'm using a really heavy weapon, I also tend to take Riposte, which also synergizes well with Dodging/Flanking but which makes Sprinting impracticably expensive.)
bagori nd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Artifact rings of protection, etc.? locus Sil 0 April 1, 2014 07:07
Protection from Evil scrolls BrandonD Vanilla 2 August 16, 2013 00:47
Are Runes of Protection broken Antoine Vanilla 18 July 21, 2010 20:51
Multiple attacks and weapon weight? Dark Vanilla 7 April 29, 2009 01:24
rune of protection scroll bug in 3.0.9b bron Vanilla 0 September 23, 2008 05:56


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.