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Old January 27, 2009, 14:39   #1
PaulBlay
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Z+Angband vs Portralis

I'm wavering between two games at the moment, Z+Angband
http://mangojuice75.googlepages.com/
and Portralis
http://variaz.proboards3.com/index.cgi

There are a lot of areas where I think both are good, but different (like multiclassing in Portralis). However the one area where Portralis really stands out IMO is in the more varied quests and associated interaction with NPCs. It has the potential to get players more 'into' the game world. I'd like to see more of this RPG approach elsewhere.

On the other hand I'll probably be playing Z+Angband more for the meantime, mostly because I think the game balance is better in that game.
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Old January 27, 2009, 19:27   #2
ekolis
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Funny, I actually *dislike* plot in roguelikes - an important feature of roguelikes is permadeath, so if I have to go through the same old dialogue screens every time I play a roguelike, I'm gonna get sick of it pretty darn quickly! (ADOM was about as much as I could take of that sort of thing!)

BTW, I almost conflated roleplaying in there with plot, but I realized there's a difference - Dungeon Crawl has plenty of roleplaying (a Trog-worshipping Berserker plays *very* differently from an Elvilyon-worshipping Healer, and at least for me, the varying religions in the game lend to an atmosphere of roleplaying), but hardly any plot (so you go into this dungeon, and you need to do what again? something about this orb? and some runes? oh well let's slaughter a lot of monsters along the way! )

ADOM on the other hand has lots of roleplaying (in the sense I explained above - ever tried playing a Chaotic Trollish "Paladin"? Very different from a Lawful High-Elven Paladin! ) as well as a moderate amount of plot (sure, there's an overarching storyline, and some occasional scripted sequences, but for the most part you can explore a semi-random world as is traditional in roguelikes.)

As for Nethack and Angband, I'm not quite sure where they fall in terms of roleplaying, but they definitely don't have much in the way of plot, so I'm fine there - I just can't stand Nethack anymore for some reason I can't quite pin down! :P

Oh well, sorry for going off on a rant there... just thought it was an interesting topic to explore!
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Old January 27, 2009, 19:48   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
Funny, I actually *dislike* plot in roguelikes - an important feature of roguelikes is permadeath, so if I have to go through the same old dialogue screens every time I play a roguelike, I'm gonna get sick of it pretty darn quickly!
I'm not so keen on permadeath. Sometimes I'll play with it, sometimes I won't. (When I play 'fair' I play pretty cautiously ;-)

You have a point with the 'same dialogue screens' complaint. I admit to flashing through the reply options at the speed of light when I've played that bit too many times. Ideally in a RPG there should be enough conversation options and different ways the game can be played that it should still be 'fresh' for a good while.

Of course not everybody is going to like it no matter what you do.
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Old January 27, 2009, 22:00   #4
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Wow, first Portralis thread in a while!

An interesting topic indeed. What made me turn Portralis more into an RPG was that I had friends whom I wanted to try out Angband and variants, and they didn't really like it, because it lacked a plot and a more elaborate world. So for my own, I decided to make it more like an RPG with dialogues and a much more elaborate world and storyline.

However, seems like other peoples just like light plot and more dungeon crawling. And I'll admit that once you've beaten the storyline(especially since there's not that much quests at the moment), it can become annoying to do it over and over, although the game doesn't really force you to follow the storyline. You can just go outside, enter a random dungeon and have some fun.

Still, for the next release, I guess putting a "vanilla mode" type game option could be a good add-on to please those who don't like elaborate plots. Death settings are also in the plans, so you'll be able to choose permadeath if you want. It will remain optional, because it can get really hard later on. Guess I'll try to please everybody!
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Old January 28, 2009, 01:10   #5
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Back to the real games

Variaz, and all, hello. I'm going to go ahead and try Portralis, once and for all.

I keep going off and playing heavily-modded Elder Scrolls games for a couple of years or so...I tried Fallout3 but the state of mods is not where I want it, yet. Two years ought to be enough time. I did that with Oblivion. Never played it when it came out, I waited 2 years. Out of the box, playing with 100 time-tested, player-verified, wonderful changes to the game. Actually, Oblivion as I play it, using about 160 or so mods, is almost different enough to Bethesda's off-the-shelf game that one could call it a VARIANT.

When I keep coming back here, as always, to check on the state of things in the 'banding community, I am seldom disappointed. 25 years of the evolution of one game is pretty neat to see, as a gamer.

Portalis seems daunting, so I avoid it. I've owned it for 3 or so years now, got it in my Bands folder with a respectable collection that I keep updated. Still haven't played a character past level 1. I've read a lot of the helpfiles, etc. It just seems so different, and complex. Not to the level that ADOM utterly perplexes me... (who the H*** took LSD and mapped the keys for that game? A half-conscious Salvador Dali? The layout is un-intelligible, chaotic, and seemingly random. Is it better with a DVORAK keyboard...? Hmm, maybe that's the key! but I digress...)

It took me a while to get used to the differences in ToME, as well, to the point where I could dive in and have fun. I've never mastered 'Banding, in any variant, and I "stay vanilla" to some degree. Never got into picking a god, for instance, in any variant. Steam, for some reason, I took to like a fish to water -- despite the initial shocks and differences, it remains, to me, more like the Angband I know than does Portralis, which is why the learning curve seemed easy, and why I keep putting it off like I used to with ToME.

So it's off to attempt, once again, after a year or so, to learn me some Portralis. Kudos to all you maintainers. 25 years. Good stuff.
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Old January 28, 2009, 03:05   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Variaz View Post
Guess I'll try to please everybody!
This is hardly ever a good idea. NO, It's never a good idea.
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Old January 28, 2009, 15:52   #7
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I have approximately recreated the information in the PortralisReferenceCard.pdf file in html format using the latest help file text as the information source. I haven't checked it much and it isn't that pretty, but I still find it easier than reading the full text files (especially 'in-game').

[EDIT]I've sent the file to Variaz. Presuming it is made available by him I will probably open a thread in the official Portralis forum for improvements, comments, corrections, etc.

Last edited by PaulBlay; January 28, 2009 at 16:48.
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Old January 6, 2011, 23:23   #8
TJA
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What exactly is that PortralisReferenceCard.pdf file and where can i get it?

Thank you
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Old January 6, 2011, 23:31   #9
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Just downloaded Portralis 0.5.0 alpha 1 and got a strange message_

"Ignoring obsolete/defective tr_info.raw file."

And after clicking on "New", the game crashed :-|

What can i do about that?!?
:-O
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