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Old February 23, 2011, 21:06   #11
PowerDiver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiburon Silverflame View Post
Max is probably more useful than average.
If you go for max, there is some more stuff you can do. You can include known resists, and you can adjust max breath damage according to the *'s left on the monster health bar.
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Old February 23, 2011, 21:08   #12
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Agreed with Tiburon. If we're only going to show one value, it should be the most pessimistic one.
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Old February 23, 2011, 21:59   #13
Tiburon Silverflame
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I'm gonna argue for Keep It Simple, Eddie. Yes, you could throw in a bunch more stuff, but the status screen's already pretty complex. I'd rather keep simple, consistent statements that don't vary on monster condition/equipment set. OR, a shorthand, something like this:

"breathes(*) for 560"

with some form of helplesson comment pointing out that breath weapons do damage based on monster health. I think it's potentially more confusing to see constantly changing numbers.
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Old February 23, 2011, 22:26   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiburon Silverflame View Post
I'm gonna argue for Keep It Simple, Eddie. Yes, you could throw in a bunch more stuff, but the status screen's already pretty complex. I'd rather keep simple, consistent statements that don't vary on monster condition/equipment set. OR, a shorthand, something like this:

"breathes(*) for 560"

with some form of helplesson comment pointing out that breath weapons do damage based on monster health. I think it's potentially more confusing to see constantly changing numbers.
I agree multiple numbers would be bad, but saying "currently breathes at most xxx fire, yyy cold, zzz nether" seems straightforward enough. We disagree on whether the confusion from changing numbers, which at least tell the truth, is more or worse than expecting a newbie to know how the numbers change with multiple resists and the different treatments of high vs low resists.

[edit] Another way to reduce the confusion would be to change the mechanic. It has always seemed strange to me that a dragon breathes for less damage after you slice its leg. Is there any good reason for the breath to depend on current hp rather than max hp?

Last edited by PowerDiver; February 23, 2011 at 23:38.
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Old February 24, 2011, 00:46   #15
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Tregonsee View Post
So breath weapons are random based on a variety of factors (chief is current HP of monster) and spells are pretty constant?

Or do spells have a range? If so, why not post that instead?
Breaths have damage caps. Spells don't. Spells vary with mlevel, type, and randomness way more than breaths.

Breaths are always some fixed fraction of the monster current HP or max cap if that is less than that fraction.

Deep darkness storm makes more damage than darkness breath.

High-element resists are pretty random, you get 6/7 to 1/2 damage range for nether for example (550 cap => 471 max damage with resist), other high resists have similar, but not necessary same calculation. Poison counts as basic4 in this, basic 4 resists drop damage to 1/3 can can be double-resisted with 1/9 damage (and further, acid is reduced with another 1/2 if it tries to damage armor slot with armor that isn't already reduced to zero AC (it always tries to damage some slot)).
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Old February 24, 2011, 01:50   #16
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Eddie: I like the curHP mechanic. It helps differentiate breaths from spells. If you assume that breaths come from the monster's biology while spells come from their mind/spirit, then you can easily rationalize that a badly-hurt monster would have trouble outputting serious breath damage, but wouldn't have as much trouble casting strong spells. I guess the analog for spells would be to give them a failure rate that increases as the monster gets damaged, but that's not really needed.
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Old February 24, 2011, 02:54   #17
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But my original question applies to what is already in the monster descriptions, which I believe is only spells, there is no numbers there about monster breaths. I would prefer that spells get fixed first, then breath.
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Old February 24, 2011, 21:46   #18
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Breaths have damage caps. Spells don't. Spells vary with mlevel, type, and randomness way more than breaths.
But we're talking about monster description, so monster level's known. Type's known. The randomness might be higher, but report the max...even if it's wildly unlikely you'll ever see it.
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Old February 24, 2011, 22:01   #19
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiburon Silverflame View Post
But we're talking about monster description, so monster level's known. Type's known. The randomness might be higher, but report the max...even if it's wildly unlikely you'll ever see it.
Ok, I agree that pessimistic estimation is better than getting surprised by lucky shot.

Maybe add text "up to" in the spell/breath description.

Or maybe give "average/max".
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Old August 25, 2013, 22:34   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiburon Silverflame View Post
And I believe the color coding correlates to resistances, at least where that's possible.

Hey, Tregonsee, I hear there's a cache of thionite on DL 19....
I did not see this post before- I will send my 'turtle' after it...

I wonder what thionite would do with my stats, I sure would like a sense of perception...
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