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Old March 26, 2016, 05:19   #31
Scraper
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
It was suggested by somebody awhile back (might've been me, I forget) that you should get at most N vaults per game, or at most N "value" worth of vaults, or something along those lines. The idea being that you should see a few vaults in a game, but you wouldn't be able to scum for them because there'd only be so many. This lets them remain special without making them scummable.

Also, disable level feelings. Make players scum the hard way, by actually exploring a portion of the level and/or burn an Enlightenment potion. Seriously, guys, if you play without level feelings you'll realize you're really not missing anything important.
Wouldn't this make the option of continuing on after you have killed Morgoth a bit pointless. I mean, I know it's pointless in terms of winning the game to continue playing after you have killed Morgoth, but there is definitely a sentence about "after killing Morgoth, you can continue to explore the dungeon in the hope of finding legendary items" etc etc.

This change would take away the nature of the game in my mind as a dungeon explorer game.
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Old March 26, 2016, 08:16   #32
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Originally Posted by Scraper View Post
Wouldn't this make the option of continuing on after you have killed Morgoth a bit pointless. I mean, I know it's pointless in terms of winning the game to continue playing after you have killed Morgoth, but there is definitely a sentence about "after killing Morgoth, you can continue to explore the dungeon in the hope of finding legendary items" etc etc.

This change would take away the nature of the game in my mind as a dungeon explorer game.
Killing Morgoth could open a stairway to the Mother of All Vaults, a viciously designed level wide deathtrap containing every single non-encountered artifact in game...
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Old March 26, 2016, 09:04   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
It was suggested by somebody awhile back (might've been me, I forget) that you should get at most N vaults per game, or at most N "value" worth of vaults, or something along those lines. The idea being that you should see a few vaults in a game, but you wouldn't be able to scum for them because there'd only be so many. This lets them remain special without making them scummable.
Not sure about this one, but definitely worth trying out, IMO. Can also be combined with my suggestions.
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Old March 26, 2016, 09:17   #34
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Hmm, maybe. I'll note that with Hippy I got most of my decent items from dragon pits.
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Old March 26, 2016, 10:10   #35
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Do we actually care that vaut-scumming is possible? I mean, play how you like. Let others play how they do.
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Old March 26, 2016, 12:17   #36
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Do we actually care that vaut-scumming is possible? I mean, play how you like. Let others play how they do.
Well, the question is how do we balance the game. We can't balance around both the diver and the scummer. Which one do we care more about?
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Old March 26, 2016, 13:17   #37
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Well, the question is how do we balance the game. We can't balance around both the diver and the scummer. Which one do we care more about?
I imagine that both are edge cases and the majority of players play somewhere in the middle. Balance for them. Perhaps even work out ways to subtly disadvantage both.
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Old March 26, 2016, 15:46   #38
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Do we actually care that vaut-scumming is possible? I mean, play how you like. Let others play how they do.
I agree. Should we dictate how others have fun. Who decides how players should have fun.... what is the best way for them to experience the game.
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Old March 26, 2016, 15:53   #39
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I agree. Should we dictate how others have fun. Who decides how players should have fun.... what is the best way for them to experience the game.
It is definitely possible to take this argument too far. Remember all the arguments about no-selling and how players who didn't want to sell stuff could just...not sell stuff? We absolutely should be making an effort to ensure that the rules of the game encourage fun playstyles.
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Old March 26, 2016, 16:20   #40
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It is definitely possible to take this argument too far. Remember all the arguments about no-selling and how players who didn't want to sell stuff could just...not sell stuff? We absolutely should be making an effort to ensure that the rules of the game encourage fun playstyles.
+1000

Some people just can't help playing "optimally" even if it's not fun.

(Incidentally, "play as you like" can be used to argue for almost anything. "When entering L100 we should just prompt the user whether to automatically instantly kill Morgoth." "But! But!". "Well, you can always answer 'no'. Play as you like!". Yeah, I know that's a bit absurd, but I'm making a point here.)

EDIT: Word swap

Last edited by AnonymousHero; March 26, 2016 at 20:27.
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