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Old November 27, 2016, 18:12   #1
PowerDiver
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3.a advocacy

I've released the code I play, in which I implemented many ideas I posted about here years ago. I believe it is close to 3.0 in spirit, but that may just be my personal biases.

My source is at
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%...DE8AC50859A409

and t4nk kindly produced a windows executable at
https://mega.nz/#!JZoglRzT!kMi1DGS2A...LxtI-weEhdb814

[edit]
t4nk produced an improved version
https://mega.nz/#!oFRCGBJA!b7bs4C9tu...duwLVj3c_dluZI

This is alpha code. I tried hard to keep in-game descriptions correct, but there are undoubtedly many mistakes.


I would like people to use this thread to talk only about whether 3.a is good or bad, and whether individual ideas are good or bad. I will start a second thread for rules, and a third thread for advice.

Last edited by PowerDiver; November 27, 2016 at 21:44.
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Old November 27, 2016, 18:33   #2
fizzix
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Thank you for posting this. I will definitely give it a shot, presumably when it inevitably becomes an upcoming competition.
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Old November 28, 2016, 10:25   #3
t4nk
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I spent some time playing it today. I highly recommend to give it a try. There are just so many good ideas.
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Old November 28, 2016, 11:10   #4
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Is there much of a learning curve coming from Vanilla? (it's all I play and always find I don't have the patience for the adjustment that variants require).
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Old November 28, 2016, 14:25   #5
PowerDiver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
I don't have the patience for the adjustment that variants require
The adjustments will be more in terms of gameplay than in different rules.

The biggest difference is the intent that the player will learn flavors by use. You can mostly mitigate that using the easiness option always_learn. I didn't test that well, but hopefully it works.

I'd guess the biggest learning curve is dealing with different spellbooks. I wanted to differentiate the classes, so I changed who gets what spells. So long as I was doing that, I made changes to the letters of the spells in a fashion that will allow for random or mixed-class spellbooks. (a) is always a bolt, (b) is always a detection, etc. The upshot is that spells won't be where you used to find them.

It worked. The classes are truly differentiated. I need to use different approaches when playing different classes.

I assume 3.a requires significantly more skill to win than 3.1+, even if one uses always_learn. A stack of !CCW [renamed cure deadly ailments] doesn't turn @ into a healer. I crushed many abusable gameplay mechanisms. @ will power up more slowly. I don't know if you'd consider dealing with that sort of stuff to be "adjusting to a variant".
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Old November 28, 2016, 17:55   #6
Ingwe Ingweron
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Should these be variant threads? Will 3a be available for OS at some point?
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Old November 28, 2016, 19:42   #7
PowerDiver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
Should these be variant threads? Will 3a be available for OS at some point?
The question of what is Vanilla is a religious war. IMO, 3.a is Vanilla -- the appropriate successor to 3.0. IMO 3.1+ is the unspeakable variant. The dev team might have a different opinion, but I expect to have at least a little support even there after they play it a bit. In any event, 3.a is the first successor to 3.0 that has any semblance of old fashioned game balance, although it is possible I made things a bit too difficult.

I chose carefully when I posted these threads to the Vanilla section of the fora. It's where they belong, even if you consider 3.a to be a crazy variant. At a minimum 3.a is a testing ground for ideas that were discussed over the years as possible improvements to V. Presumably at least a few of my mods will migrate to 4.something. One of the points of this thread [advocacy] is for people to argue about the worth of any specific ideas they want to see migrate.

Presumably someone capable of compiling 3.0 for OS could compile 3.a for OS. That someone would not be me.
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Old November 28, 2016, 21:15   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
The question of what is Vanilla is a religious war. IMO, 3.a is Vanilla -- the appropriate successor to 3.0. IMO 3.1+ is the unspeakable variant. The dev team might have a different opinion, but I expect to have at least a little support even there after they play it a bit. In any event, 3.a is the first successor to 3.0 that has any semblance of old fashioned game balance, although it is possible I made things a bit too difficult.

I chose carefully when I posted these threads to the Vanilla section of the fora. It's where they belong, even if you consider 3.a to be a crazy variant. At a minimum 3.a is a testing ground for ideas that were discussed over the years as possible improvements to V. Presumably at least a few of my mods will migrate to 4.something. One of the points of this thread [advocacy] is for people to argue about the worth of any specific ideas they want to see migrate.
Well, whenever someone has argued against a gameplay change, my response has been along the lines of "Angband is a community game - if someone puts out something claiming to be Angband and the community accepts it, then that's what it is". Good to see it's finally happened

I'm not planning to try it at the moment - regrettably, I'm barely even playing (what I regard as) V at the moment - but I'm very interested to hear others comparing and contrasting.

I'm going to call 3.a a fork
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Old November 28, 2016, 23:56   #9
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I don't like bad items. Especially potions and mushrooms that drain stats (but also useless things like staffs of darkness). What kind of good gameplay do they promote? I haven't found anything that restores stats yet. Looks like shops don't sell restoring things?
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Old November 29, 2016, 00:33   #10
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Originally Posted by t4nk View Post
I don't like bad items. Especially potions and mushrooms that drain stats (but also useless things like staffs of darkness). What kind of good gameplay do they promote? I haven't found anything that restores stats yet. Looks like shops don't sell restoring things?
Questions about how to use stuff or how to get restores should go into the advice thread.


I will offer this general perspective to people considering playing. If you can't get over being forced to use bad items, even needing to search them out, then this is not the version for you. If you all want to opine that this sucks, that's only fair. I did ask you to express your opinions.
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