noobery (dumb questions)

[Kneller]

edit: Nevermind, I figured it out.

[taptap]

Dabbling in song:

Song of Trees can be very handy when overcoming insufficient of light.

Song of Freedom is just generally awesome. Very easily overcomes obstacles such as traps, rubble, pits, opens blocked and finds unfound doors and grants you temporary freedom of movement (which is one of the most useful special effects).

Song of Elbereth is generally underappreciated. Carefully used and with sufficient skill it can completely change the game.

Not dabbling in songs anymore:

Slaying, Staying, Este, Sharpness are obvious candidates, noise can be a problem and they are probably of more use later on. Still, true warriors sing.

[Kneller]

Still, true warriors sing.

Singing is cool, but I'm thinking of doing a stealthier/backstabby build. So, I figure I'd be focused more on Stealth and Perception, seconded by Melee and and maybe some Evasion for safety's sake. I figure I'd dabble in Smithing and Song for basics. But, for this build, I probably only need Song of Silence, right?

But I do have some other questions.

1) I was looking at some of the modifiers for equipment, and the "of shadows" modifier mentions creating an "unnatural darkness". What is that? It sounds like it could be good (improves stealth), or really bad (draws shadowy creatures).

2) I'm trying to work out armor. For stealth, is a shield considered armor for the purpose of the weight penalty? What about helms, boots, gloves, and cloaks?

3) Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to figure out the best backstabby weapon. How are non-integer weights handled? So, a short sword has a weight of 1.5. Does it crit every 8 or 9 points above Evasion? Regardless, I'm thinking that a short sword is the best backstabbing weapon over a long sword, but only if your stealth is quite high (enough to get you at least two crit dice on a backstab).

4) Since it uses the Melee skill, does this mean you can Assassinate with throwing weapons? If so, a throwing mastery/focused attack with finesse and subtlety would be pretty boss with a dagger. You're adding your entire stealth and half your perception to a roll that crits for every 4 or 5 points you exceed evasion. And you can still keep your distance. You could technically do that with a short sword, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about waiting for a turn in Stealth next to a mob before attacking it.

5) With that in mind. Does throwing mastery make all throwing weapons unbreakable, or does it just lower the chance? What if the weapon is enchanted?

6) If you are in Stealth mode, and wait a turn, do you get the +7 for waiting instead of the +5 for Stealth mode, or does Stealth mode cancel that out?

7) Does a Mithril Longsword (2 lbs.) only get a max +2 for Strength? It seems odd, being that Mithril is supposed to be uber, but who knows?

8) How does disguise work? In general, the line of sight modifiers explained in the manual sound confusing to me. Both the "doubles the modifiers for being attacked", and "-1 for each passable square" isn't clear to me. I'm not sure what they are saying in the former, and the latter makes it sound like the further I am away, the greater the penalty.

That's probably good...for now. Thanks for any help.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by Kneller

1) I was looking at some of the modifiers for equipment, and the "of shadows" modifier mentions creating an "unnatural darkness". What is that? It sounds like it could be good (improves stealth), or really bad (draws shadowy creatures).

It lowers your light radius by 1.

Originally Posted by Kneller

2) I'm trying to work out armor. For stealth, is a shield considered armor for the purpose of the weight penalty? What about helms, boots, gloves, and cloaks?

All of them. If you have the equipment window at the side it shows the total weight at the bottom. Or the character sheet will list the penalty

Originally Posted by Kneller

3) Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to figure out the best backstabby weapon. How are non-integer weights handled? So, a short sword has a weight of 1.5. Does it crit every 8 or 9 points above Evasion? Regardless, I'm thinking that a short sword is the best backstabbing weapon over a long sword, but only if your stealth is quite high (enough to get you at least two crit dice on a backstab).

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's +9 for the first crit then another +8 for the second on a 1.5lb weapon. If you have the combat rolls window open you can watch & check.

You'll eventually find a decent 1lb short sword around. A 1.5-2lb spear is also fun with backstab, but you have to smith it yourself & you can't get subtlety for the extra criticals on a spear.

Originally Posted by Kneller

4) Since it uses the Melee skill, does this mean you can Assassinate with throwing weapons? If so, a throwing mastery/focused attack with finesse and subtlety would be pretty boss with a dagger. You're adding your entire stealth and half your perception to a roll that crits for every 4 or 5 points you exceed evasion. And you can still keep your distance. You could technically do that with a short sword, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about waiting for a turn in Stealth next to a mob before attacking it.

Pretty sure not.

From the manual:
• The melee bonus is only gained if this is a regular, flanking, or controlled retreat attack.

Again, you can check the combat roll window.

[taptap]

Several questions are already answered better above, however:

1) Aah... the new smithing allows a lot of spoiling as well. You will instantly recognize the effect once you see a cloak of stealth for real.
2) Yes, all armour items are armour items.
3) 1 lb shortsword or a good (possible sharp artefact) dagger - with finesse + subtlety obviously, then you are not talking 1 or 2 criticals but 5, 6, 7 or more.
4) All throwing weapons are melee weapons as well. Whether a dagger throw can work as assassination is afaik untested, but it may work. Can't recall anybody testing it, great idea. Real stabbers were not that fashionable lately.
5) Only unbreakable weapons are artefacts, i.e. your Nargothrond spears for dragon killing may deplete rapidly in dragon fire.
6) Imo you should get the higher bonus, but no way to know exactly without sourcediving. I would recommend waiting unslowed in normal circumstances. (Opponents move further when you are "slow waiting".)
7) Get a real sword if you want strength bonus. (Or even better an axe. Or Momentum ability.) You can make a nice lamp out of the Mithril instead.
8) Read it once more, it should clear up eventually. But in short: Get disguise if you want to be stealthy.
9) Read Song of Lorien description and evasion for sleeping enemies (-5!). It really is your friend if you want to be an assassin. (Personally I rarely use Song of Silence with high perception stealthy chars with Listen ability.)

[bron]

My two cents on smithing: as others have said, you can ignore it completely or invest heavily in it. Most of the middle ground doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But I will mention a couple of possibilities:

1) Take 2 points of Smithing and buy Weaponsmithing. This only costs 800 exp and so is a quite modest investment. At the first forge, make some gear: probably a longsword, a longbow, and a shovel. After that, take the "Flaming Arrows" skill, and forge arrows every chance you get. Even if you stay with just the 7 points in archery, you'll still hit reasonably often, and the Flaming Arrows will give you a nice boost to your offensive punch. For me, this works well with Fingolfin characters.

2) Some people swear by the "Artistry Start". I'm not a fan of it myself, but it has been discussed in a number of posts.

3)The "Enchantment Start". Invest enough points in Smithing to get up to 10 Smithing ability. Buy Armorsmithing and Enchantment. At the first forge, smith Gloves of the Forge +2 (note that this takes an extra 200 exp), and a round shield of deflection (+2,1d3). Debate rages about what the third thing should be: I like a Cloak of Protection (+1,1d1). At subsequent forges, you can make a variety of useful gear: a Dwarf mask of Defiance or of Brilliance, Boots of Free Action, or of Sprinting. I favor Leather Armor of Resilience: even if you don't have a Restoration herb, you can make it and put it on, and you aren't any worse off. And once you do restore, those extra HP are all to the good. You can carry this one step further (I do), and also eventually buy Jewelry, and make a Crown of Grace. If you are a Feanor (i.e. Smithing affinity), this isn't to expensive. The gloves and the crown bring you up to 13 smithing skill, and you can make +2 rings of Accuracy or of Evasion, or a Feanorian lamp if you have some mithril. I like to make a Horn of Blasting if I have some Restoration. And if you find an enchanted forge, you can make a Feanorian lamp of Brightness and an Amulet of Constitution.

[locus]

The Artistry start is good for newbies, not for a skilled player like yourself. It's basically training wheels. The thing about the Artistry start is that it's a large boost of power in the early game (1-2 extra dots of prot/evasion/accuracy on each of six pieces of armor goes a *long* way), but in the mid/late game you're finding masterwork armor on the ground anyway, and you haven't boosted yourself up to artifact-making levels of smithing skill like you can with enchantment and +3 gloves of the forge. So it's good if you are having trouble even making it to the mid/late game.

[Kneller]

The Artistry start is good for newbies, not for a skilled player like yourself.

Did you just call me a skilled player? I only got the game a week ago. :P I've been reading the manual inside and out, though.

I want to plan a stealth backstabber build, if that matters in terms of advice. I have another thread going regarding specific build elements, but I'm still trying to grasp the mechanics.

Because I'm planning to focus on Stealth, Melee, and Perception, I don't expect to have much left over for other areas. I figure I'll get Song of Silence (and Lorien if I can pull it off), and enough Smithing to cover some early game basics. I doubt I'll even have any points left over to dabble in Archery, Will, or Evasion. If I do, I think Evasion will take priority as I would need a backup plan in case Stealth ever fails me.

[BlueFish]

I tried getting a backstabber going when I first started playing, but never managed much. Had a few deep dives, and they are super-fun if you can get them off the ground, but they're hard. But maybe you'll be better at it than I was.

The usual way of learning the game is just to do a standard melee/evasion sort of build though.

[locus]

Originally Posted by Kneller

Did you just call me a skilled player? I only got the game a week ago. :P

Referring to bron, who can't understand why people recommend the Artistry start.