Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > AAR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 6, 2008, 04:31   #11
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle_Boy View Post
I've almost always been a "clear-the-whole-level-kill-everything" type of player and I'm curious about diving. On average how much of a level do you explore doing this? Do you use up stairs?
On levels with really good feelings I'll look around as long as it's safe to do so. On boring or only moderately good feeling levels I'll take the stairs down almost as soon as I find them. Often times I'll actively detect stairs to get deeper faster.

If you're going to dive, detection is everything. Diving, basically equates to sneaking around and running away. Detect monsters, detect objects, detect traps, teleport, these are your weapons.

Since you're almost always in over your head, an unexpected encounter could easily end in death.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6, 2008, 12:29   #12
Garrie
Adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 147
Garrie is on a distinguished road
If you're going to dive, detection is everything. Diving, basically equates to sneaking around and running away. Detect monsters, detect objects, detect traps, teleport, these are your weapons.

with this in mind, the priests ability to "sense reality" fairly cheaply with a town spell is pretty good way of helping priests make up for the lack of teleport other (from a town book anyway).

Mind you, magic mapping is very cheap & available compared to teleport other!
__________________
Best /favorite character
Garrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8, 2008, 03:48   #13
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,832
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
detection stealth and HP are the critical factors here. I recommend ranger, rogue, or warrior. Kobold and highelf are my preferred race choices. You might try a few rounds of quickband for practice-winning in 100k turns is a reachable goal.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10, 2008, 17:24   #14
starstealer
Scout
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 44
starstealer is on a distinguished road
It seems to me that diving is tougher in practice than I thought - though at this point it is mostly breaking learn'ed behavior rather than actual difficulty.

Had my best start last night - a level 19 high elf (yeah - I decided to just go with it for now) mage. He was doing quite well - but got overwhelmed by wargs, cold hounds, ogres and black ogres all at once. I could have risked the teleport with 0 MP, but decided to try to take them down while retreating - but they found a way to surround me. At that point I was up to 2 MP again - so I risked the PD and it phased me back into the room I was running from. Oh the irony.

If I had foreseen better the situation (both ogre groups and the wargs were off-screen on my last detect) - I think I would've been able to recall out of it.

Anyway - I noticed my diving was pretty quick on my first two trips (down to ~600-800ft), but after that, I tended to linger around. This, more than anything else, is probably what is doing me in here.
starstealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10, 2008, 21:01   #15
Donald Jonker
Knight
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 593
Donald Jonker is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by starstealer View Post
Anyway - I noticed my diving was pretty quick on my first two trips (down to ~600-800ft), but after that, I tended to linger around. This, more than anything else, is probably what is doing me in here.
I have the same experience myself. I successfully dive down to a depth I haven't spent much time in and think "Wow, let's see what kind of gear monsters will drop here," or, "I'd better slow down a minute and get my bearings before moving on."

Invariably this means testing your mettle against an unknown baddie who will end up being more than your match. It seems safer in general to tackle things that you meet about 800-1000' deeper than the first time you met them. In any case you're bound to screw up and die, though. That's why Angband has such a bigger learning curve than, say, Nethack. I managed to beat Nethack after only about six weeks of playing (and it was my first roguelike), because once you reach a certain point in the game you can tackle anything. Not so with Angband. I've been on Angband for about 9 months now and I still consider myself something of a neophyte. One of those "easy to learn, difficult to master" things, I suppose.

Also, one of the biggest advantages, IMO, of diving is getting past 1000-2000' will thin out the hounds quite a bit which is quite nice.
Donald Jonker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10, 2008, 22:05   #16
Jungle_Boy
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 434
Jungle_Boy is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Jonker View Post
I have the same experience myself. I successfully dive down to a depth I haven't spent much time in and think "Wow, let's see what kind of gear monsters will drop here," or, "I'd better slow down a minute and get my bearings before moving on."

Invariably this means testing your mettle against an unknown baddie who will end up being more than your match. It seems safer in general to tackle things that you meet about 800-1000' deeper than the first time you met them. In any case you're bound to screw up and die, though. That's why Angband has such a bigger learning curve than, say, Nethack. I managed to beat Nethack after only about six weeks of playing (and it was my first roguelike), because once you reach a certain point in the game you can tackle anything. Not so with Angband. I've been on Angband for about 9 months now and I still consider myself something of a neophyte. One of those "easy to learn, difficult to master" things, I suppose.

Also, one of the biggest advantages, IMO, of diving is getting past 1000-2000' will thin out the hounds quite a bit which is quite nice.
I've been playing Angband and before that Rogue for well over a decade and still have not had a winner. So yea, easy to learn difficult to master probably fits. Also from the one character I've had that got to Morgy, if I remember right there are hounds all the way down.
Jungle_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10, 2008, 23:11   #17
Donald Jonker
Knight
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 593
Donald Jonker is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle_Boy View Post
Also from the one character I've had that got to Morgy, if I remember right there are hounds all the way down.
There are, but there seems to be a stunning profusion of them, especially fire and water hounds at ~1500' (before and after). I frequently have trouble keeping my cash flow in the black at that depth just because I get blasted to hell and back on what seems like every level...and that's using every possible escape to get away from them. Maybe it just seems like there are more of them since hounds at other depths don't hurt your inventory so badly.

edited for orthography.
Donald Jonker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11, 2008, 01:43   #18
Nile
Scout
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 31
Nile is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by starstealer View Post
I know it seems to be recommended that the armor is unimportant
Unimportant only in the sense that everything else is more important. If you get hit with a melee attack, your AC straight up reduces the damage you take.

Quote:
Each of my wizards did meet an untimely demise - 2 from running into Mughash and his cronies and once from being surrounded by hill orcs. This second one, I didn't have the second book (it wasn't in the shop), and when I did a phase door, I landed next to a floating eye, who paralyzed me and well, I got brutalized from there...
As a mage, these situations should never happen. Cast detect monsters like crazy (remember, monsters can spawn after you start exploring the level) and always have a safe escape route planned back to the stairs. When I say "safe escape route" I mean a route that doesn't require you to pass through or by a room full of sleeping monsters. If you are fighting monsters that shoot (kobold archers), make sure your escape route is not through big open rooms or you will be pelted. When I explore on early levels, I first go one direction away from the stairs, then retrace my steps and go a different way, so I'm never far from the stairs.

Quote:
My biggest challenge right now is learning to run away - something I am simply not accustomed to doing.
That's the key to the game - knowing when to run and when to fight. If things are not looking good - retreat. There's nothing to be gained by dying, and anything you might have gained from fighting you can find another time. Always remind yourself of that, especially when taking on vaults.
Nile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11, 2008, 14:02   #19
starstealer
Scout
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 44
starstealer is on a distinguished road
Here's my first character to bother putting on the ladder. He's nothing special yet and somehow I managed to pick up enough stuff to start that I'm apparently running at -1 speed (Large Metal shield and Tulwar are both equipment I picked up in my recent dive - so I'll exchange the shield for a lighter one).

The only thing of note that I've gotten so far is a Potion of Charisma on level 4 of the dungeon. Other than that its been a pretty uneventful foray. Hopefully he'll continue on well enough in the next few days.
starstealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2008, 01:24   #20
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,832
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
you might want to go without a shield at all until you get more strength or find one with some resistance. BTW: to count as a dive, I always assume that CL<<DL. By CL 12 that means DL 20, with plans to kill young dragons asap. Mage really is a tough character for a newbie. Rogue, warrior, or ranger are much easier starting classes.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I finally understand how diving quicker can be "safer" Wraitheist Vanilla 13 September 19, 2008 17:25
Quick Diving versus "Recommended Depths" Wraitheist Vanilla 14 May 4, 2008 08:12
Blast! Killed by a "summon monster" trap Wraitheist Vanilla 10 April 27, 2008 18:36
[Norseband] Help needed with "silly" time messages ISNorden Variants 2 April 4, 2008 21:06
Roguelike idea from "Lost Magic" DS game - Mr. @ teaches typing! ekolis Idle chatter 10 October 19, 2007 03:25


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.