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Old February 24, 2014, 23:05   #21
WanderingBard2014
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Hmmm... sounds like potential fun and chaos. I will have to play with them a bit. Thanks a ton for the good advice, everyone... I really appreciate it, and the community here has been just amazing. Finally broke the L10 barrier! Woot! How far down does the dungeon go, anyway? 100 levels?
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Old February 24, 2014, 23:35   #22
Monkey Face
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Originally Posted by WanderingBard2014 View Post
How far down does the dungeon go, anyway? 100 levels?
The dungeon actually goes deeper than 100 levels but your main quests are to kill Sauron on level 99 which opens up the stairs to level 100 where you will find Morgoth.
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:08   #23
Estie
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There seems to be a confusion here. Timo said Elves and Half-Elves are bad, NOT High-Elves. High-Elves are good.

I might add that in my personal preference list, High Elves make the top above Half Trolls. Thats because I value stealth highly. Dwarves are close to the bottom, not much better than humans.

The reason for these different evaluations is probably a different playstyle.
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:12   #24
Derakon
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Originally Posted by Estie View Post
There seems to be a confusion here. Timo said Elves and Half-Elves are bad, NOT High-Elves. High-Elves are good.
Stat-wise, High-Elves are amazing. The problem is the incredible EXP penalty which means you have to play them for twice as long as anyone else to get anywhere. This may not be an issue if you prefer to take your time anyway, though. Still, it's enough to make me say that you're better-off choosing a race whose stat bonuses complement the class you want to play as, rather than the jack-of-all-trades High Elf.
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Old February 25, 2014, 07:18   #25
Estie
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High Elves are the race with both good hit points and good stealth. Its that or Dunadan, and the xp penalty for the latter is similar.
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Old February 25, 2014, 09:49   #26
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
The only place is in the code. They can be useful early on if you get lucky and they create an acid ball or fire ball, but there's always the chance that they'll haste, heal, or clone your target instead.
They are useful against low level uniques. You can't clone or polymorph them, and healing is just minor setback, so only really harmful effect is haste. I have killed Wormy with two shots from wonder. Doesn't always work though, you might get something like disarm or stone-to-mud or light beam that do nothing against most monsters.

[edit] added polymorph.

Last edited by Timo Pietilš; February 25, 2014 at 11:25.
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Old February 25, 2014, 09:58   #27
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
The reason for these different evaluations is probably a different playstyle.
Or different prefered class. I play mostly priests, and dwarves make excellent priests and paladins, High-elves are bad as priests. For mage, ranger or rogue Hi-Elf is great. For warrior it's even match (dwarf is better fighter, but weaker archer, has more HP, but loses at steath etc.). I also value Dwarf +5 infra and innate pBlind quite high. Infra helps a lot against some early monsters before you get ESP, and not getting blinded ever is not bad either.
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Old February 25, 2014, 10:24   #28
Mondkalb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingBard2014 View Post
...Another quick question, if you will indulge me... is there anywhere that I can find a full list of possible effects of a wand/spell of Wonder? I have just been stacking them in my house; I haven't dared to use any of them yet, because the whole "random effect" thing is awfully vague.
Just be reluctant to use it in vaults or in rooms with something you might want to grab; besides the ball spells that can destroy common items, it may create an earthquake or destruction effect with the possibility to shatter anything in the vicinity.

And for the effects:
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=3784
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Old February 25, 2014, 11:28   #29
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Mondkalb View Post
Hm. I could swear that one of the effects of wand of wonder is stone-to-mud. I don't see that in the list. Maybe those are spell "wonder" effects?

Need to check the code myself.

Hm. Only one wonder effect. Maybe that has changed somewhere in past.

OK. Has changed and quite a bit it seems. This is from 2.9.3 codebase:

[Edit, edit, edit, edit...] I think because of that borg code for wonder is outdated. Old wand of wonder was way worse (less reliable) than current one.
Code:
    /* XXX Hack -- Wand of wonder can do anything before it */
    if (sval == SV_WAND_WONDER) sval = rand_int(SV_WAND_WONDER);

    /* Analyze the wand */
    switch (sval)
    {
        case SV_WAND_HEAL_MONSTER:
        {
            if (heal_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_HASTE_MONSTER:
        {
            if (speed_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_CLONE_MONSTER:
        {
            if (clone_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_TELEPORT_AWAY:
        {
            if (teleport_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_DISARMING:
        {
            if (disarm_trap(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_TRAP_DOOR_DEST:
        {
            if (destroy_door(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_STONE_TO_MUD:
        {
            if (wall_to_mud(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_LITE:
        {
            msg_print("A line of blue shimmering light appears.");
            lite_line(dir);
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_SLEEP_MONSTER:
        {
            if (sleep_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_SLOW_MONSTER:
        {
            if (slow_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_CONFUSE_MONSTER:
        {
            if (confuse_monster(dir, 10)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_FEAR_MONSTER:
        {
            if (fear_monster(dir, 10)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_DRAIN_LIFE:
        {
            if (drain_life(dir, 75)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_POLYMORPH:
        {
            if (poly_monster(dir)) ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_STINKING_CLOUD:
        {
            fire_ball(GF_POIS, dir, 12, 2);
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_MAGIC_MISSILE:
        {
            fire_bolt_or_beam(20, GF_MISSILE, dir, damroll(2, 6));
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_ACID_BOLT:
        {
            fire_bolt_or_beam(20, GF_ACID, dir, damroll(5, 8));
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_ELEC_BOLT:
        {
            fire_bolt_or_beam(20, GF_ELEC, dir, damroll(3, 8));
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_FIRE_BOLT:
        {
            fire_bolt_or_beam(20, GF_FIRE, dir, damroll(6, 8));
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_COLD_BOLT:
        {
            fire_bolt_or_beam(20, GF_COLD, dir, damroll(3, 8));
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_ACID_BALL:
        {
            fire_ball(GF_ACID, dir, 60, 2);
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_ELEC_BALL:
        {
            fire_ball(GF_ELEC, dir, 32, 2);
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_FIRE_BALL:
        {
            fire_ball(GF_FIRE, dir, 72, 2);
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_COLD_BALL:
        {
            fire_ball(GF_COLD, dir, 48, 2);
            ident = TRUE;
            break;
        }

        case SV_WAND_WONDER:
        {
            msg_print("Oops.  Wand of wonder activated.");
            break;
        }

Last edited by Timo Pietilš; February 25, 2014 at 12:07.
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Old February 25, 2014, 15:49   #30
Estie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Or different prefered class. I play mostly priests, and dwarves make excellent priests and paladins, High-elves are bad as priests. For mage, ranger or rogue Hi-Elf is great. For warrior it's even match (dwarf is better fighter, but weaker archer, has more HP, but loses at steath etc.). I also value Dwarf +5 infra and innate pBlind quite high. Infra helps a lot against some early monsters before you get ESP, and not getting blinded ever is not bad either.
Maybe....I love priests myself, but I prefer High Elf priests. With 2 rings of escaping and a lot of +stealth, orbing when they have mana and retreating when they dont.

I find it sad that clairvoyance doesnt detect item types anymore, though. This spell was the "reward" for a hard early game, much as banishment is the cherry for mages. The mages dont ever need to carry banishment scrolls; priests used to not have to carry enlightenment potions. I feel that priests lack that little extra power from their spells over paladins. Bigger heals they have, sure, but also less health.
Mages can very well live without banishment. Its just a little extra sweety for the pure caster who is bad at combat. Priests should also have that, for the same reason - otherwise they are just weak paladins.
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