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Old May 19, 2014, 06:18   #11
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I think a lot of races could stand to be better-differentiated; notice that Half-Orcs and Gnomes also have considerably smaller play counts. The whole Human -> Half-Elf -> Elf -> High-Elf spectrum is problematic though because it is a spectrum, and min-maxers are only ever going to see sense in picking one end of the extreme.

I'd suggest renaming Half-Elf and Elf to something different at the very least, to reduce the "spectrum problem".
Currently problem with those lesser elf races is penalty to CON in addition to lesser hit die for elf. That's just to important stat, especially mid to late game. Remove that and you have potentially somewhat playable races. In fact those two are only races with CON penalty.

Elf should have small penalty to STR and big bonus to DEX. Half-elf perhaps 0, +1, -1, +1, 0. Elf -1, +1, -1, +2, 0. Totaling +1 for both.
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Old May 19, 2014, 06:52   #12
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Take out Half Elf and make Elves significantly different. As Derakon points out, they are just nerfed High Elves at the moment. Make them more stealthy, faster and weaker. They're renowned for their archery, so give them a to-hit bonus there. That might give people a reason to play them.

Instead of finding a way for the Half Elf to be a relevant race, perhaps replace it with a different, more challenging race? Yeek or Sprite?
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Old May 19, 2014, 09:34   #13
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With an eye to new players, I think that elves, half-elves and humans now violate the principle of least astonishment. People come from other games, such as D&D, where they are good choices for a beginner; there is a great amount of previous fantasy and gaming 'literature' that encourages them to play this race. It's natural to think "too many choices, do not want to read the documentation, I'll just play a human, that can't be wrong right?'. No one expects them to be a challenge option.
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Old May 19, 2014, 10:52   #14
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lots of discussion about the races, little about the professions, to counteract. Warrior as most common winner surprised me a lot. I always thought there were very easy early on but annoying/ hard later on, when everyone else has gotten reasonably good with their spells. Rogue as least common winner was what I would have expected, to me they feel like Rangers without the extra shots bonus for bows. In 3.5. they got better item detection but that is more a convenience feature than a strength thing, so I think they could use some boosting.
On the principle of least astonishment, for a rogue-like I would expect humans to learn=level fastest but be mediocre at everything. Mages are hard early but powerful later on, easy beginner options are strong melee builds like HT warriors. So to me Angband works as expected.
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Old May 19, 2014, 12:30   #15
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lots of discussion about the races, little about the professions, to counteract. Warrior as most common winner surprised me a lot. I always thought there were very easy early on but annoying/ hard later on, when everyone else has gotten reasonably good with their spells.
Warrior is quite easy very late into game. It's the mid-game that is hard for them, because they lack really reliable detection until detection rods, and pretty much need ESP to avoid things they do not want to deal with. You need to use your inventory space for rods and wands instead of books, but that's about it. They also advance very fast and have best survival stats.
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Old May 19, 2014, 12:38   #16
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I love playing rogues (five of my ten winners happen to be rogues, three are rangers, and two are paladins). I don't think they need any boosting.

Warriors are often suggested as an easy starting class for new players, that might explain why they are quite common.

I agree on elf and half-elf, either they should be merged or get some specials to make them more interesting.
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Old May 19, 2014, 15:56   #17
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I like the suggestion to remove Half-Elf and replace Elf with something more descriptive -- Wood Elf? I think that alone, without even making any stat changes, would go a long way to boosting their use, since they'd no longer look like the compromise choice between Human and High-Elf.
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Old May 19, 2014, 16:09   #18
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I think it might be nice to see the [wood] elves get a flavorful low-power bonus. They're very arguably the weakest race overall, so they might appreciate a dwarf-treasuresense style of feelgood buff.
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Old May 19, 2014, 16:51   #19
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by krazyhades View Post
I think it might be nice to see the [wood] elves get a flavorful low-power bonus. They're very arguably the weakest race overall, so they might appreciate a dwarf-treasuresense style of feelgood buff.
Sense animals? Requires ESP by type.
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Old May 19, 2014, 17:06   #20
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Sense animals? Requires ESP by type.
I thought of something similar - sense life. There is even a low-level spell for that in Faangband, available to rangers.
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