Angband 4.2.4

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Originally Posted by Estie

...For the latter, if you really insist on there being that bad device skill, it could be automated like digging; so the game retries without forcing the player to input action - react - input - react _all the time_....

I don't really like this proposed solution, as it could be very problematic in a combat situation. Failing the device, I don't want my @ to keep trying ad infinitum while some monster is breathing down @'s neck. @ should be able to switch tactics in the heat of the battle, rather than mindlessly trying to repeat an action that didn't work immediately.

[ewert]

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron

I don't really like this proposed solution, as it could be very problematic in a combat situation. Failing the device, I don't want my @ to keep trying ad infinitum while some monster is breathing down @'s neck. @ should be able to switch tactics in the heat of the battle, rather than mindlessly trying to repeat an action that didn't work immediately.

Digging already disturbs the repeat if monsters do stuff. The same mechanic could/should be used for devices.

I agree with the idea that failing devices when there is no disturbances around the character is a quality of life issue rather than a tactical issue, and I would be very happy to have repeat-attempt-until-success-or-disturbed be the mechanic.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron

I don't really like this proposed solution, as it could be very problematic in a combat situation. Failing the device, I don't want my @ to keep trying ad infinitum while some monster is breathing down @'s neck. @ should be able to switch tactics in the heat of the battle, rather than mindlessly trying to repeat an action that didn't work immediately.

I completely agree, and have pointed out above that I dont like it either. But it would still be _much_ better than the current situation.

As ewert pointed out, it wouldnt be as bad as you make it to be - youd be disturbed by the same things that disturb your digging and you could set the # of attempts lower than for digging, maybe 10 or 20.

[Egavactip]

It used to be that, as a lowish level warrior, I'd love getting a set of dragon scale armor or a ring of ice-type item. Now I generally just ignore them because I can't ever get them to activate. Ditto for a number of other magic items. They are just useless hunks of junk for warriors, except possibly long past the time when they can be useful to warriors. I think it's stupid to be able to have a snowball's chance in hell of activating an item when you need it. A larger chance of failure than for other classes is fine, but what I've been experiencing is ridiculous. Like having to activate a Rod of Magic Mapping 10 times to get it to work. Like being totally unable to use a Rod of Speed in combat because you will die before getting it to activate (you can only use it if you spend time time prior to combat trying to get it to activate, then rush into combat).

Maybe there should be an anti-magic character class like a Barbarian and all this stuff can be sloughed off on it, but it's been pretty frustrating for someone like me who usually plays warriors.

[Selkie]

Literally the only class I never play is a warrior. I'm enjoying all the balance whines with a single malt, a pipe and a roaring fire at my toes. I'm only surprised a warrior can spell rod, let alone activate it

[Nick]

I've given the device use fail rate issue some thought, and come to the conclusion that adjusting the formula to allow more range was only half the job. The other thing that needs doing is adjusting individual items so they have the appropriate difficulty.

Historically an item's level (which determines failure rate) was tied to the depth it appeared in the dungeon, but now it mostly affects failure and recharging. So the question is, which items are the wrong level?

I'm inclined to say that DSM should clearly be lower level, some utility rods and the elemental rings probably should be, and there are probably some things which are actually too easy (for example, rods of Treasure Location are level 5, the lowest in the game).

I think probably the best starting point is warriors, who have the worst device skill and arguably the greatest overall need for devices (at least for utility). I'm inclined to think that attack rods should be high level, utilities like Recall and Illumination low level, and things like Healing and Speed there are arguments both ways.

Opinions please

[Estie]

Whether thats a good solution depends on the specific values you chose; I dont see anything wrong with it in principle.

I would advocate a curve that at some point gets to <10% activation chance for all utility items; so maybe, treasure location at lvl 5 and rod of speed at lvl 45 or so, with intelligence score having little impact. That is _not_ high fail rate by any means; if high fail rate is desired, and I am not at all advocating against it, then I would want to see a different solution that doesnt end up testing the players device skills (key pressing).

[malcontent]

Sounds like a good idea to me. The current situation is a bit appalling at times.

[Pete Mack]

Nick--just use half depth for worn equipment difficulty. It makes sense thematically, too.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Estie

I would advocate a curve that at some point gets to <10% activation chance for all utility items; so maybe, treasure location at lvl 5 and rod of speed at lvl 45 or so, with intelligence score having little impact. That is _not_ high fail rate by any means; if high fail rate is desired, and I am not at all advocating against it, then I would want to see a different solution that doesnt end up testing the players device skills (key pressing).

So two things:

1. What do we regard as utility items for this? Recall clearly is and Fire Balls clearly isn't, but what about Hold Monster, or Teleport Other?
2. It will be fairly easy to make wands, staffs, rods and worn items that activate just repeat until success - is there any down-side to this?

Note that INT currently has little impact anyway - the maximum possible added to device skill is 13, compared to a CL50 device skill for a warrior of 55. Note also that I think many of the current device levels are poorly chosen - some need reducing, some need increasing - and I'd like some opinions on the detail of that.

So more than two things, I guess