Please remove lava from town

[grumbleguts]

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm

The temperature of lava at the height where bats fly is probably still a good thousand degrees...

No it isn't.

The temperature decreases rapidly and varies with the square of the distance from the surface. I am a geologist and have stood near lava. While it is uncomfortable a few feet away, ceiling height should be doable if you are flying over.



These guys are a lot closer than I imagine the ceilings of these dungeons to be. And they are clearly uncomfortable, but if this temperature were a thousand degrees they'd be dead; they are just standing there. The surface of the lava is 1100 degrees here.

[Estie]

Yes, that is outside though. In confined spaces (like a room) it would get too hot quickly.

[smbhax]

Is Angband's town meant to be an off-putting hellscape? It's visually, socially, and morally ugly, and horrible to be in. It's the first a new player sees of the game world, and it's awful looking; even just the ASCII colors are bad, and then people come and spit on you or whatever. Generally I breathe a sigh of relief once I get back to the relative sanity of the dungeon. Maybe that's supposed to be the point? Anyway I hate it. ; P Would really rather just have a quiet place with some trees (rocks, in a pinch?) and shops.

And I can never remember what the darn shop numbers mean. Hm except 8 for home, somehow I've managed that one. Huh.

[kineahora]

Originally Posted by smbhax

Is Angband's town meant to be an off-putting hellscape? It's visually, socially, and morally ugly, and horrible to be in. It's the first a new player sees of the game world, and it's awful looking; even just the ASCII colors are bad, and then people come and spit on you or whatever. Generally I breathe a sigh of relief once I get back to the relative sanity of the dungeon. Maybe that's supposed to be the point? Anyway I hate it. ; P Would really rather just have a quiet place with some trees (rocks, in a pinch?) and shops.

And I can never remember what the darn shop numbers mean. Hm except 8 for home, somehow I've managed that one. Huh.

Yeah, coming back to the real substance of this thread aside from command prompts--is there any purpose of having the town contain LAVA?

I would think not from a game-play perspective. So what about lore? Well, the presence of Morgoth and his creatures did turn Beleriand into a hellscape when it had been beautiful. This game contains though some creatures from the 3rd age (like the ringwraiths) and the 2nd age like Ar-Pharazon--so it's not really entirely a 1st-age thing but an amalgam. We could also consider the town to be right at the edge of Mordor in the 3rd age which obviously wasn't nice, much like ruined Beleriand.

So actually, I think a bleak town is reasonable. Maybe put Lava behind granite so the character cant step on it, but it's just nasty-looking.

Or better, what about a birth option for town style, from forested (Beleriand/Shire), to Island (Numenor), to hellscape (edge of Angband/Mordor/Maybe Gondolin)--would function more like a game skin--purely aesthetic choice for the player?

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Originally Posted by kineahora

Yeah, coming back to the real substance of this thread aside from command prompts--is there any purpose of having the town contain LAVA?

I would think not from a game-play perspective. So what about lore? Well, the presence of Morgoth and his creatures did turn Beleriand into a hellscape when it had been beautiful. This game contains though some creatures from the 3rd age (like the ringwraiths) and the 2nd age like Ar-Pharazon--so it's not really entirely a 1st-age thing but an amalgam. We could also consider the town to be right at the edge of Mordor in the 3rd age which obviously wasn't nice, much like ruined Beleriand.

So actually, I think a bleak town is reasonable. Maybe put Lava behind granite so the character cant step on it, but it's just nasty-looking.

Or better, what about a birth option for town style, from forested (Beleriand/Shire), to Island (Numenor), to hellscape (edge of Angband/Mordor/Maybe Gondolin)--would function more like a game skin--purely aesthetic choice for the player?

Having lava on the edges of town makes some sense to me, and I appreciate the change that Nick made for two reasons:

1. Thematically, having lava in the charred desert of the Anfauglith to the north of Beleriand, created by the fires of Thangorodrim during the Dagor Bragollach seems completely appropriate.

2. Educationally, it helps to make beginners aware of the terrain and its properties, just like the rubble and passable rubble that also appear in town. I really can't wait for Nick to implement water terrain.

[Pete Mack]

The town is in a hidden valley on a shoulder of Thangorodrim, and regularly sees lava rivers. Only heroic efforts by the wizard of the magicke shoppe keeps its square clear.
There is a magical entrance to the pits of Angband used by adventurers and ambitious shopkeepers alike. Even the denizens occasionally try their hand. Supplies are brought in on eagle-back, or sold by returning adventurers. In so a remote and inaccessible a place, a natural monopoly has formed allowing astronomical prices, where even a biscuit costs a gold piece. The high prices allow the trade to contunue. And the adventurers keep coming. Most are wise, and eschew the depths, when even a hundred gold will set them up for life. But a rash few go deeper...

[Pete Mack]

The town is in a hidden valley on a shoulder of Thangorodrim, and regularly sees lava rivers. Only heroic efforts by the wizard of the magicke shoppe keeps its square clear.
There is a magical entrance to the pits of Angband used by adventurers and ambitious shopkeepers alike. Even the denizens occasionally try their hand. Supplies are brought in on eagle-back, or sold by returning adventurers. In so a remote and inaccessible a place, a natural monopoly has formed allowing astronomical prices, where even a biscuit costs a gold piece. The high prices allow the trade to contunue. And the adventurers keep coming. Most are wise, and eschew the depths, when even a hundred gold will set them up for life. But a rash few go deeper. To date, only one has returned from the greatest depths...

[Sky]

what i really detest about the town, is the placement of shops and facing of doors.

[Whelk]

As long as the lava isn't getting in the way of anything I'm routinely doing around town, I like it. Seeing it the first time changed the image of the town in my imagination from that point on, and that's neat. It's encouraging to me to see something was added for flavor and not much else. (Context: I've been pretty discouraged by the increasingly common direction of some other games I like axing flavorful content in favor of streamlining the mechanical aspects of the game.)

And while we're opining about the town experience in general: I'd love to be able to use my healing spells/items on sick townsfolk, (willingly) give gold to urchins/beggars/merchants, etc. to get the various meddlesome townsfolk out of the way instead of having to murder them on my way to the store. Granted the "RP" part of the RPG that is Angband means little if anything, but it still bugs me. Not something I ever expect to actually see since it'd be code effort for negligible effect on gameplay, but it's something I think about pretty much every playthrough.

[Sky]

Yeah, i mean, why would the vendors not buy Haste Monsters and Heal Monsters. they HEAL the townsfolk !!


but really, the simple solution is to have a birth option with "model village" town, where there is no walkable lava and the shops are spread out in a circle with all the doors facing the center of town; and maybe it could only have merchants and not rogues or urchins. And the layout is always identical.