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Old August 20, 2019, 06:09   #11
Derakon
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Blandness basically means lack of variety, especially when it comes to terrain. Vanilla has never been a game that featured a wide variety of terrain, and while that hasn't particularly hampered it in the gameplay department, I can see how it means there's not a lot of flavor to the dungeon. I guess that could create extra barriers to bringing in new blood.
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Old August 20, 2019, 09:53   #12
luneya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Blandness basically means lack of variety, especially when it comes to terrain. Vanilla has never been a game that featured a wide variety of terrain, and while that hasn't particularly hampered it in the gameplay department, I can see how it means there's not a lot of flavor to the dungeon. I guess that could create extra barriers to bringing in new blood.
Yep. And remember, the OP was on a forum mainly discussing Dwarf Fortress rather than Angband. Playing DF is all about terrains; the monsters you encounter are very much a side-effect of the terrain rather than being the primary feature as they are in roguelikes.
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Old August 20, 2019, 10:27   #13
werecobalt
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Maybe we can dump player directly to DL20 for some thrill.

edit:
other random ideas:
no food ration in shop
make first ten levels nethack-sized and each guarded by an early unique or several warg-tier monsters
replace town folk with baby dragons

Last edited by werecobalt; August 20, 2019 at 10:38.
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Old August 20, 2019, 15:37   #14
HallucinationMushroom
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Well, for my two cents, I came off a Vanilla hiatus from 3.0.6 to some of the recent versions put out in the last year and I found the increased variety in dungeon layout one of the most enjoyable changes. I've only run through it twice, but I was constantly surprised to see new rooms, vaults, special rooms (whatever terminology is technically correct), and even the town was different. Lots and lots and lots of these things. Shrugs. I guess this is a perspective thing. When I played a lot of old Vanilla what OP was saying was pretty true to my experience,... long hallways, tons of boring square rooms, an insane number of that 4x4-room-thing-with-4-doors, the three-rooms-forward-slash-small-vaulty-thingy, and the rare-greater-vault-that-you-can't-explore. These are all the official names of these things, btw. But lately, I was finding new things I had never seen before on most of the levels I played. Shrugs.

tl;dr, I think there has been a lot of love given to dungeon layouts and variety, if not precisely lava/ice/water/sand etc.
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Old August 20, 2019, 17:48   #15
Therem Harth
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As far as variety in V, I'm digging the changes to spiders in Vanilla git master. The web terrain makes them a lot more creepy and threatening. An imprompto monster group with web slinging spiders and higher HP giant ticks can be surprisingly dangerous, and it just looks cool.
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Old August 20, 2019, 19:44   #16
Diego Gonzalez
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When I was helping Jeff Greene to add new terrain types for NPP, I became aware that you get used to them really fast, specially if you play ascii. Because of that the first levels in NPP are quite plain, new terrain types have a progressive depth.

I find new room types a better way to break uniformity. Perhaps new terrain types could be added if the interaction with the player is interesting... and noticeable.
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Old August 20, 2019, 19:50   #17
Pete Mack
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Diego--
The ice levels in NPP are good. And V needs corpse flowers, too.
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Old August 21, 2019, 15:21   #18
Diego Gonzalez
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Diego--
The ice levels in NPP are good. And V needs corpse flowers, too.
Teleporting walls were useful sometimes. I think that adding a small set of interesting terrain features is nice, avoiding the introduction of complicated game mechanics as much as possible.
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Old August 21, 2019, 17:44   #19
Ingwe Ingweron
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Just add all the terrain features, wilderness, and multiple towns, dungeons, etc., from FA. Problem solved and Nick wouldn't have to revise FA.
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Old August 21, 2019, 19:37   #20
Gwarl
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Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
Just add all the terrain features, wilderness, and multiple towns, dungeons, etc., from FA. Problem solved and Nick wouldn't have to revise FA.
I think the plan for Beleriand is not so very different from what you describe.
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