Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 5, 2014, 19:00   #41
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,942
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Given that this is an item that a) is explicitly intended to be a newbie assist, and b) requires sacrificing a ring slot to do nothing except protect you from instant death, I don't really see the need to make it limited, and I especially don't see the need to make it hard to find.

I mean sure, if it restored you to full health on "dying" or something, that'd be different. But the proposed behavior just leaves you hovering right above death, such that you're basically certain to really die unless things work out just so. Having to sacrifice a ring slot for that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5, 2014, 21:19   #42
AnonymousHero
Veteran
 
AnonymousHero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,367
AnonymousHero is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Given that this is an item that a) is explicitly intended to be a newbie assist, and b) requires sacrificing a ring slot to do nothing except protect you from instant death, I don't really see the need to make it limited, and I especially don't see the need to make it hard to find.

I mean sure, if it restored you to full health on "dying" or something, that'd be different. But the proposed behavior just leaves you hovering right above death, such that you're basically certain to really die unless things work out just so. Having to sacrifice a ring slot for that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.
I was thinking around the rarity of the Phial, but yeah, I could be sold on just giving it to the player. (But it should still be an artifact to prevent scumming.)
AnonymousHero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5, 2014, 21:33   #43
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,942
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymousHero View Post
I was thinking around the rarity of the Phial, but yeah, I could be sold on just giving it to the player. (But it should still be an artifact to prevent scumming.)
Oldschool Phial rarity or modern rarity?

What kind of scumming would people do with such a ring?
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 5, 2014, 21:36   #44
AnonymousHero
Veteran
 
AnonymousHero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,367
AnonymousHero is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Oldschool Phial rarity or modern rarity?

What kind of scumming would people do with such a ring?
Heh, point taken! Let's just it give it to them!
AnonymousHero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2014, 12:06   #45
Atanvarno
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 9
Atanvarno is on a distinguished road
In addition to the "didn't see that coming" instadeath, there is the "calculated risk" instadeath, which I view as an interesting part of the game.

A typical example would be that you have to teleport away an instadeath monster to be able to clear a vault, and the only way to do it is to spend at least one turn in its LOS. Then you have to decide whether the reward is worth the small risk.

A Ring of Second Chances could trivialize some of those situations, if you were willing to sacrifice an inventory slot for carrying it as a swap. Of course there are many ways to make such a ring less useful (e.g., it gets destroyed if you take it off, or it prevents teleport other, or it doesn't work inside vaults, or...)
Atanvarno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2014, 15:10   #46
Lord Tom
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 68
Lord Tom is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atanvarno View Post
In addition to the "didn't see that coming" instadeath, there is the "calculated risk" instadeath, which I view as an interesting part of the game.

A typical example would be that you have to teleport away an instadeath monster to be able to clear a vault, and the only way to do it is to spend at least one turn in its LOS. Then you have to decide whether the reward is worth the small risk.

A Ring of Second Chances could trivialize some of those situations, if you were willing to sacrifice an inventory slot for carrying it as a swap. Of course there are many ways to make such a ring less useful (e.g., it gets destroyed if you take it off, or it prevents teleport other, or it doesn't work inside vaults, or...)
I agree with this. Absent some limitation on multiple uses, one could even use the ring for winning battles rather than escaping unexpectedly dangerous ones:

1. Fighting AMHD with distance weapon, no resistances covered
2. Get breathed on --> dying status
3. Duck out of LOS, heal
4. Back in action, resume pummeling AMHD with distance weapon
5. Get breathed on --> dying status...

Whatever limitation would IMO at least want to prevent this sort of scenario.
Lord Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2014, 18:52   #47
LostTemplar
Knight
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 670
LostTemplar is on a distinguished road
There is amulet of life saving in ADOM. It saves a character from one death, resurrecting it with full HP and disappears.
LostTemplar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2014, 19:51   #48
bio_hazard
Knight
 
bio_hazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 618
bio_hazard is on a distinguished road
I'm all for making casual/noob friendly options, but for some reason the amulet idea doesn't really do it for me. I think the solutions for frustrating instadeaths like this might be:

1) give complete monster memory, and force alerts if a monster has an attack that does > 50% of player HP. Alert could be in message window and/or different color in monster list.

e: this is my preference, since it only changes the monster memory metagame without changing any game mechanics.

or

2) without complete monster memory, if a monster attack is not yet in monster memory, and it can do >50% (or whatever) of player health in damage, the monster gives a "Warning shot"

The Titan crashes his fist menacingly! This attack looks like it could kill you!

The Ancient Multi-hued dragon rears back and breaths poison in your direction. This attack looks like it could kill you!

Monster Memory is then updated. This also has the advantage of not having to dink around with whether you are set to 1 or 0, and how many times it will work. First encounter with any monster has the potential, with a clear warning not to do it again!
bio_hazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2014, 21:20   #49
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
We shouldn't change this. Instadeaths are a fundamental part of Angband and have been since forever. Changing them would be bad.
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2014, 22:10   #50
debo
Veteran
 
debo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,367
debo is on a distinguished road
I honestly can't believe that the monster memory thing is still a conversation that was had anytime past when the internet was invented
__________________
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'
debo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bug with "Turn" in the "Player History" dump bron Vanilla 3 January 17, 2014 17:35
Newbie here. What is the "Unignoring" status? Amnekian Vanilla 2 May 26, 2013 15:20
"Great" drops replaced by "good" drops in vaults: bug or feature? PowerWyrm Vanilla 14 February 27, 2010 16:54
Feature request: change "Purification and Healing" prayer book. bron Vanilla 1 December 19, 2009 00:19
"repeat" Command just little bit "smarter" ClaytonAguiar Vanilla 8 June 17, 2009 16:01


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.