Instadeath mitigation: "dying" status

[Derakon]

Given that this is an item that a) is explicitly intended to be a newbie assist, and b) requires sacrificing a ring slot to do nothing except protect you from instant death, I don't really see the need to make it limited, and I especially don't see the need to make it hard to find.

I mean sure, if it restored you to full health on "dying" or something, that'd be different. But the proposed behavior just leaves you hovering right above death, such that you're basically certain to really die unless things work out just so. Having to sacrifice a ring slot for that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.

[AnonymousHero]

Originally Posted by Derakon

Given that this is an item that a) is explicitly intended to be a newbie assist, and b) requires sacrificing a ring slot to do nothing except protect you from instant death, I don't really see the need to make it limited, and I especially don't see the need to make it hard to find.

I mean sure, if it restored you to full health on "dying" or something, that'd be different. But the proposed behavior just leaves you hovering right above death, such that you're basically certain to really die unless things work out just so. Having to sacrifice a ring slot for that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.

I was thinking around the rarity of the Phial, but yeah, I could be sold on just giving it to the player. (But it should still be an artifact to prevent scumming.)

[Derakon]

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero

I was thinking around the rarity of the Phial, but yeah, I could be sold on just giving it to the player. (But it should still be an artifact to prevent scumming.)

Oldschool Phial rarity or modern rarity?

What kind of scumming would people do with such a ring?

[AnonymousHero]

Originally Posted by Derakon

Oldschool Phial rarity or modern rarity?

What kind of scumming would people do with such a ring?

Heh, point taken! Let's just it give it to them!

[Atanvarno]

In addition to the "didn't see that coming" instadeath, there is the "calculated risk" instadeath, which I view as an interesting part of the game.

A typical example would be that you have to teleport away an instadeath monster to be able to clear a vault, and the only way to do it is to spend at least one turn in its LOS. Then you have to decide whether the reward is worth the small risk.

A Ring of Second Chances could trivialize some of those situations, if you were willing to sacrifice an inventory slot for carrying it as a swap. Of course there are many ways to make such a ring less useful (e.g., it gets destroyed if you take it off, or it prevents teleport other, or it doesn't work inside vaults, or...)

[Lord Tom]

Originally Posted by Atanvarno

In addition to the "didn't see that coming" instadeath, there is the "calculated risk" instadeath, which I view as an interesting part of the game.

A typical example would be that you have to teleport away an instadeath monster to be able to clear a vault, and the only way to do it is to spend at least one turn in its LOS. Then you have to decide whether the reward is worth the small risk.

A Ring of Second Chances could trivialize some of those situations, if you were willing to sacrifice an inventory slot for carrying it as a swap. Of course there are many ways to make such a ring less useful (e.g., it gets destroyed if you take it off, or it prevents teleport other, or it doesn't work inside vaults, or...)

I agree with this. Absent some limitation on multiple uses, one could even use the ring for winning battles rather than escaping unexpectedly dangerous ones:

1. Fighting AMHD with distance weapon, no resistances covered
2. Get breathed on --> dying status
3. Duck out of LOS, heal
4. Back in action, resume pummeling AMHD with distance weapon
5. Get breathed on --> dying status...

Whatever limitation would IMO at least want to prevent this sort of scenario.

[LostTemplar]

There is amulet of life saving in ADOM. It saves a character from one death, resurrecting it with full HP and disappears.

[bio_hazard]

I'm all for making casual/noob friendly options, but for some reason the amulet idea doesn't really do it for me. I think the solutions for frustrating instadeaths like this might be:

1) give complete monster memory, and force alerts if a monster has an attack that does > 50% of player HP. Alert could be in message window and/or different color in monster list.

e: this is my preference, since it only changes the monster memory metagame without changing any game mechanics.

or

2) without complete monster memory, if a monster attack is not yet in monster memory, and it can do >50% (or whatever) of player health in damage, the monster gives a "Warning shot"

The Titan crashes his fist menacingly! This attack looks like it could kill you!

The Ancient Multi-hued dragon rears back and breaths poison in your direction. This attack looks like it could kill you!

Monster Memory is then updated. This also has the advantage of not having to dink around with whether you are set to 1 or 0, and how many times it will work. First encounter with any monster has the potential, with a clear warning not to do it again!

[Magnate]

We shouldn't change this. Instadeaths are a fundamental part of Angband and have been since forever. Changing them would be bad.

[debo]

I honestly can't believe that the monster memory thing is still a conversation that was had anytime past when the internet was invented