Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 30, 2007, 22:38   #11
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 7,860
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
Just in case I decide to take that suggestion: what is different about O besides the combat? (I've heard about O style combat and that's why I think it would take a lot of getting used to.)
In a nutshell:
  • More classes and races;
  • Class specialties - you get to choose (at levels 0, 20, 40) extra powers;
  • Smarter monsters, monster mana;
  • Incremental resistances - one item gets you 45% resistance, a second takes you to 70 %, etc up to 5 items giving immunity (actually slightly more complicated, but that's roughly it);
  • Various more minor things like more even rise in power of monsters as you descend, magic devices are harder to use for non-magic users, etc.
It is harder than V, but not enormously. It is also reputedly impossible to dive in O...
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2007, 10:45   #12
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
In a nutshell:
  • More classes and races;
  • Class specialties - you get to choose (at levels 0, 20, 40) extra powers;
  • Smarter monsters, monster mana;
  • Incremental resistances - one item gets you 45% resistance, a second takes you to 70 %, etc up to 5 items giving immunity (actually slightly more complicated, but that's roughly it);
  • Various more minor things like more even rise in power of monsters as you descend, magic devices are harder to use for non-magic users, etc.
It is harder than V, but not enormously. It is also reputedly impossible to dive in O...
Hmmm. It certainly isn't impossible to dive in O, at least using the "clev<<dlev" definition: I have a rogue crawling around ~2100' in his mid-twenties. It is hard though, and I wouldn't want to try it with a non-rogue.

Pretty much everything else Nick says is true, but I would emphasise that none of the above list has anything like the impact of the different combat model. The monster mana, additional spell realms, special abilities and different resistance model all take a bit of getting used to - a session or two. The different combat model took me dozens of characters to get used to, because it's so totally different to V:

- plusses to-hit (skill) are *much* more important than to-dam (deadliness)
- criticals are a significant part of your damage output
- dice sides are more important than number of dice (because of criticals)
- extra blows are not a no-brainer; sometimes the bigger weapon is better than the extra blow (rarely true in V with enough +to-dam)
- brands and slays are less important (but still good)

I'll leave it there for now, though there's a whole PhD one could write.

A couple of replies to other points:

To the OP - if you wait until you've won V before trying a variant, you could be waiting a long time! Try a variant whenever you feel like it (probably just after you lose a really good character to a 3000' YASD after weeks of play). I've never won V without cheating, but awfully glad I've played some variants.

To Nick - I agree that !speed is great (I hoard them), but I don't know any variants in which they're a stock item in stores (most have them as unusual stock or in the BM). Sometimes though !speed can be dangerous, because it tempts you to finish the fight when you should really escape ("ooh I can whack-and-back now, I don't need to run"). At least, that's killed me a few times.

CC
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2007, 10:49   #13
andrewdoull
Unangband maintainer
 
andrewdoull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 45
Posts: 872
andrewdoull is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
To Nick - I agree that !speed is great (I hoard them), but I don't know any variants in which they're a stock item in stores
Unangband stocks them...
__________________
The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
In UnAngband, the level dives you.
ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com
andrewdoull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2007, 12:15   #14
Psi
Knight
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surrey, UK
Age: 44
Posts: 870
Psi is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
- brands and slays are less important (but still good)
I'm fairly new to V combat having played all my previous melee characters in O-style, but to me it seems that brands and slays are more important in O because they mutliply up the whole damage, rather than just the base damage dice as in V. I may have missed something though.
Psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2007, 13:30   #15
Bandobras
Knight
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 725
Bandobras is on a distinguished road
Psi, you are right. Moreover, they add a sizeable (for a starting character) damage amount on top of that (at least in S). I love the O style combat, but this I don't like: the first branded dagger I find is usually better than that extra-dice, manually enchated big weapon I was so proud of for the first 10 levels. Not in the spirit of O IMHO.
Bandobras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2007, 15:58   #16
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 7,860
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
To Nick - I agree that !speed is great (I hoard them), but I don't know any variants in which they're a stock item in stores (most have them as unusual stock or in the BM). Sometimes though !speed can be dangerous, because it tempts you to finish the fight when you should really escape ("ooh I can whack-and-back now, I don't need to run"). At least, that's killed me a few times.
You sometimes get stacks of !Speed in the Black Market in O - when that happens, it's worth spending your entire bank balance on them. I find their main use is when confused - quaff !Speed then !CCW until you can teleport. Still usually doesn't work against Hummerhorns...
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2007, 20:57   #17
Conker
Scout
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 38
Conker is on a distinguished road
I think careless deaths are always going to be around in some incarnation. I just had the worst one ever - my nicely kitted out warrior, +6 speed, about 600HP, tried to disarm a trap. Failed, and the trap summoned a bunch of Time Hounds. Who killed me before I even had a chance to move. Talk about unlucky. I suppose that's a lesson to never try to disarm a trap manually once disarm trap rods are easily available.
________
Harley-Davidson FLHRCI

Last edited by Conker; January 19, 2011 at 13:22.
Conker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1, 2007, 01:16   #18
tigen
Apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 53
tigen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conker View Post
I think careless deaths are always going to be around in some incarnation. I just had the worst one ever - my nicely kitted out warrior, +6 speed, about 600HP, tried to disarm a trap. Failed, and the trap summoned a bunch of Time Hounds. Who killed me before I even had a chance to move. Talk about unlucky. I suppose that's a lesson to never try to disarm a trap manually once disarm trap rods are easily available.

It's part of the roguelike experience I generally die from pointless greed, trying to kill that thing that is too dangerous, skimping on supplies, trying to avoid using supplies (surely it will die in the next hit, why waste the potion?)

If you want to see how to play carefully, watch the borg. Runs away constantly, stair scums, avoids every sign of risk, and would rather try to dig a tunnel through granite with his bare hands than step next to a floating eye.

Actually the borg's ability to be successful is kinda sad. I would prefer if the game design was such that formulaic risk-avoidance tactics didn't work. For example the stair scumming stuff and even perhaps the existence of instant teleport level. If the game had chokepoints where you were forced to confront significant danger then the borg could not run away, and we humans would have the advantage again

I guess Sangband's scoring system captures this to some extent. A borg probably can't get a good score since it would pump up its skills too much before taking any risks.
tigen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1, 2007, 02:20   #19
Bandobras
Knight
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 725
Bandobras is on a distinguished road
Quote:
For example the stair scumming stuff and even perhaps the existence of instant teleport level.
UnAngband plug : no instant teleport level there (it takes 2 turns IIRC) and soon no stair-scumming (semi-persistent levels). If you have any further ideas, let us know.
Bandobras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1, 2007, 22:07   #20
Madoka
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 64
Madoka is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigen View Post
It's part of the roguelike experience I generally die from pointless greed, trying to kill that thing that is too dangerous, skimping on supplies, trying to avoid using supplies (surely it will die in the next hit, why waste the potion?)
That is pretty much why I die most of the time as well. Also, my greed will make me take less down for more slots for loot. Until I realize I should have brought that extra item. Like when I get surrounded by some summoned monsters, and I get beat to death. This is usually when I realize I should have brought that Scroll of Teleport that's sitting useless at Home.
Madoka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prevent selling items ish Vanilla 1 August 29, 2007 12:12


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.