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Old September 24, 2014, 15:53   #11
Derakon
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Maybe add a "leap attack" ability that goes with Charging for added attack strength?
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Old September 24, 2014, 16:15   #12
debo
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If you added rocket launchers to sil, you could just remove leaping and let us rocket jump. I think that would solve the problem entirely.
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Old September 28, 2014, 00:13   #13
Infinitum
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Not really a fan of the 1-tile chasms in general (albeit the preset room ones are neat), and as such not thrilled by leaping either. If you do keep it I think it would work better as a skill check modified by Dexterity and equipment weight - it'd give archers another reason to pack light armour and would add some tension in leaping chasms as an scape mechanism.
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Old September 28, 2014, 02:46   #14
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Originally Posted by debo View Post
If you added rocket launchers to sil, you could just remove leaping and let us rocket jump. I think that would solve the problem entirely.
#1 way to have fun on the Angband forums ... do a search for debo rockets.
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Old September 28, 2014, 06:23   #15
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As implemented currently, I like chasms as they add to the atmosphere aesthetically. Also they add some degree of danger as creatures might spawn from chasms.

Functionally, they add another potential escape route albeit with quite some risk involved, landing in some unknown area while taking fall damage can result in some pretty "fun" situations. Would you escape from the enemies? Or would you be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire? I like the tension generated by such situations when they do occur.

Generally I like the hazardous, annoying aspect of chasms. The dungeons of Morgoth are not meant to be a welcoming place, and chasms should rightfully add to the aspect. I particularly like the maps where chasms separate you from being able to get to the archers easily but they are guarding some nice treasure. Very nice balance of risk and reward.

Chasms also add to the offensive gameplay of characters that utilize ranged combat, as somewhere to fall back to to take potshots at pursuing enemies. Of course this applies to the enemies as well. However they don't really present any offensive opportunities for melee characters other than knocking back enemies into chasms or scaring enemies into chasms. Though it is great fun when it works.


That said, I would greatly prefer leaping to have NO prerequisites, as it is only marginally useful when chasms appear on the map, and doesn't really add to gameplay otherwise outside of those situations. I think that is my main gripe with leaping, as compared to skills like mind over body and curse breaking. They are meant to be useful, life saving even in certain situations, but I need to spare the exp to take dodging as well as level evasion if I had not done so already. Most times I won't have the exp on hand to take leaping when I really want to. That greatly diminishes the utility of the skill when its already only so marginally useful to begin with.

Another way would be to to implement leaping with some synergy to other skills to encourage more folks to take it.

For example, if you took dodging and leaping, it gives additional +1-3 bonus to dodge whilst leaping in midair. Or something like if you had momentum and landed an attack after leaping, it would increase the strength bonus from momentum to something like 1 point per 0.4-0.25 pounds for that attack.

Honestly, I would love for leap to be able to used anytime, or when near an enemy, instead of only being prompted to leap when moving towards a chasm or traps, in some sort of "leap attack" fashion. Though I'm not sure how others will feel about this or how it might be implemented. In general, I think that it would greatly increase the utility of leaping if there is any way you can incorporate leaping as more of an offensive tool, like the way dodging with flanking works currently.

Last edited by Isilme; September 28, 2014 at 07:14.
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Old September 28, 2014, 10:38   #16
Philip
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I like the idea of the leap attack, though I don't think it should necessarily be that much stronger than a normal attack. Instead, it could allow you to avoid using a turn to move next to a monster. It might not be strong enough, but it's still better than standard Leaping, and standard Leaping isn't exactly hopeless. Maybe it could stack with Charge and Knockback or something?
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Old September 28, 2014, 14:26   #17
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Well I've taken leaping on my current archer. It's not so bad as an archer-smith where I can save pts by putting it on my boots. I suspect it's going to be annoying latter on if I find artifact boots & have to swap-in & out. Already found a minor use for it, I can seperate Uldor from his pack. Not a huge deal, considering I could probably have just belted them anyways.
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Old September 28, 2014, 14:55   #18
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My preferred option is #2, merge it with another skill (Dodging seems like the obvious choice). I will never be happy to take an ability that doesn't help me in combat and doesn't do anything at all unless a somewhat rare dungeon feature appears and even then it's a situational effect. Leaping isn't worth the XP on its own.

You could make it a prereq to something worth taking, but Dodging already is that.
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Old September 28, 2014, 19:56   #19
Scatha
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Originally Posted by debo View Post
If you added rocket launchers to sil, you could just remove leaping and let us rocket jump. I think that would solve the problem entirely.
This has certain advantages, but there are balance issues. In particular, it's favourable to characters with high Constitution. Since Con may already be the best stat, I'm reluctant to give it any boosts.
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Old September 28, 2014, 22:12   #20
Narvius
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The answer is obviously ghost rockets that drain Voice instead of HP.
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