Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 10, 2019, 16:56   #1
PowerWyrm
Prophet
 
PowerWyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,672
PowerWyrm is on a distinguished road
Cooldowns for spells?

While implementing the new Priest for PWMAngband, I had the idea of adding a "Revive" spell which will act like a temporary buff that will prevent death once if death occurs while the buff is active. But since that's a very powerful ability, I decided to make it last 20+d20 turns while adding a cooldown of 200 turns to have it 10-20% uptime.

Would it also work in V? I was thinking of this for very powerful stuff like healing or teleport other.
__________________
PWMAngband variant maintainer - check http://powerwyrm.monsite-orange.fr (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!
PowerWyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10, 2019, 17:26   #2
fph
Knight
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Berlin / Italy
Posts: 791
fph is on a distinguished road
If you have three tele-other wands, two rods, and the spell, do they all share the same cooldown?
__________________
Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.
--
You read a scroll labeled 'lol gtfo' of Teleport Level.
fph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10, 2019, 18:02   #3
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,414
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Powerwyrm-
V had this once, long ago. It only lastes D10 turns, and was called Globe of Invulnerability. It was just too powerful and was removed.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10, 2019, 18:13   #4
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,943
Derakon is on a distinguished road
That depends on how "prevents death" works. Globe meant you just flat-out didn't take damage (or in some versions, prevented 95% of damage). If this Revive spell means you survive the killing blow but at 0HP, you need to make sure you don't take another hit before getting healed. That limits your options in terms of taking melee damage, or fighting multiple enemies / at a speed disadvantage.

It's also worth bearing in mind that a d10 duration lasts for up to 30+ player turns at endgame speeds.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2019, 00:53   #5
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 7,860
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
I've never been a fan of cooldowns, although I have trouble pinpointing exactly why. Maybe it's because mana is in effect an aggregation of cooldowns for all spells, and adding individual cooldowns as well seems like you're having to pay twice.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2019, 07:27   #6
Chud
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 288
Chud is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I've never been a fan of cooldowns, although I have trouble pinpointing exactly why. Maybe it's because mana is in effect an aggregation of cooldowns for all spells, and adding individual cooldowns as well seems like you're having to pay twice.
I'm pretty much with Nick on this one. Cooldowns feel more reasonable in a real-time (-ish) game like, say, Mass Effect, but don't really feel like they make sense in a turn-based game like Angband. I see them creating a hit-and-run, wait, hit-and-run-again play style which seems like it would just become tedious.
Chud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2019, 07:40   #7
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,106
wobbly is on a distinguished road
They work ok in Tome 4. I'm not a big fan of them either but they do work out ok.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2019, 16:06   #8
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,943
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Isn't literally every ability and item in ToME 4 cooldown-based? If you build the game around it then it probably works fine; the question is how well it works in a game that otherwise doesn't really consider them.

PowerWyrm: what do you think of giving each character, say, 3 "effective" uses of the spell throughout their lives? That is, they can only use the spell if it hasn't saved their lives 3 times before. Casting it and then not needing it doesn't count against this limit.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2019, 08:20   #9
bio_hazard
Knight
 
bio_hazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 618
bio_hazard is on a distinguished road
You could limit by level instead of by life. One use per level ok, but more than one and there's a good and increasing chance you fall through the floor onto the next level (or alter reality if you're on 99/100) because your magics are too powerful and made the dungeon unstable or some such. I'm not entirely sure of the exact problem we are trying to solve, but at least that might make it less likely people would use the spell for repeated kamikaze runs into vaults since they'd be likely to lose the loot on the 2nd or 3rd casting.

For the revive spell in particular, this sounds more like an innate ability than a spell to me.
bio_hazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2019, 17:51   #10
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,842
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
While implementing the new Priest for PWMAngband, I had the idea of adding a "Revive" spell which will act like a temporary buff that will prevent death once if death occurs while the buff is active. But since that's a very powerful ability, I decided to make it last 20+d20 turns while adding a cooldown of 200 turns to have it 10-20% uptime.

Would it also work in V? I was thinking of this for very powerful stuff like healing or teleport other.
I had a visceral reaction of abhorrence to this idea. For me, one of the most distinguishing features, if not THE most distinguishing feature, of any great rougelike is that there are no second chances, no "extra" lives. You die, you start over from the beginning. No if's, and's, or but's. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Making @ immune from death for any period of time is tantamount to giving extra lives. You might as well be playing Pac-man.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How should I get more spells? Petoften Vanilla 1 June 25, 2018 14:05
Why cant I see my spells? Lanman Vanilla 3 December 1, 2013 10:07
Mage Spells Malatar v4 33 April 20, 2012 11:26
Mages - What spells? Zambaku Vanilla 10 June 21, 2011 19:51
On less used spells bebo Vanilla 8 February 4, 2009 23:21


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.