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Old June 18, 2016, 00:34   #221
krazyhades
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy View Post
I dont understand the demands for monster lore, isnt a staff of probing sufficient if you're willing to spend one inventory slot and one turn.
I think for the most part the issue lies in the fact that, while monster knowledge is preserved across games played on the same savefile, in practice people are not in a position to always only use their one save. They may delete the save on dying, or create a new save with a different name, or make a save on a new version, or on a different computer, or have multiple concurrent characters on different saves.

If you in practice actually only had to probe a monster once to have permanent access to knowledge of it, this would be fine, but in reality that does not happen for most people in most situations.
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Old June 18, 2016, 03:07   #222
Cold_Heart
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I think poschengband would benefit from having a system like "pseudo-id for monsters" where one could roughly evaluate how dangerous any detected enemy is for @ without any previous knowledge or spoilers. E.g. wearing no rFire and evaluating a hell wyrm would tell you "better run away" even though you don't actually know yet that it breathes fire.

I think a system like this will go a long way; a lot of MUDs have it, too.
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Old June 18, 2016, 12:59   #223
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Originally Posted by krazyhades View Post
I think for the most part the issue lies in the fact that, while monster knowledge is preserved across games played on the same savefile, in practice people are not in a position to always only use their one save. They may delete the save on dying, or create a new save with a different name, or make a save on a new version, or on a different computer, or have multiple concurrent characters on different saves.
Yup. Certainly, for me it's mostly about the annoyance of having to start all over again probing things (sounds wrong, doesn't it?). I actually never use Probing items/skills -- I just read the r_info.txt/monster.txt/whatever instead. Turns out it's more convenient to just have it open in a separate terminal/editor and use text-search to locate the monster you care about.

Eventually you get to know most of the monsters pretty well anyway, so even that becomes redundant for all but the most exotic monsters. (Which, granted, there are quite a few of in Poscheng )

Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhades View Post
If you in practice actually only had to probe a monster once to have permanent access to knowledge of it, this would be fine, but in reality that does not happen for most people in most situations.
This would be much better, but would still have the strange effect of eventually making Probing items into junk items (likewise skills). EDIT: Well, alright you also gain concrete HP knowledge, but that's so marginal that I've not even taken advantage of that information even once during a decade+ of play.

In my fork of ToME 2.x, I've decided to just remove the monster memory entirely in favor of full knowledge. Much simpler and gets rid of ton of (likely) buggy code.

In practice it's not like it's particularly unbalancing.
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Old June 18, 2016, 17:28   #224
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well i'm just speaking to my own preferences here, but a game where winning is predicated on using spoilers isnt my idea of a fun game. I play randarts because I dont want to memorize all the standarts. I stopped doing fixed quests because sting always seems to be in the same place. and to get the scoop on monsters, im ok with carrying probing :-)
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Old June 18, 2016, 18:22   #225
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well i'm just speaking to my own preferences here, but a game where winning is predicated on using spoilers isnt my idea of a fun game. I play randarts because I dont want to memorize all the standarts. I stopped doing fixed quests because sting always seems to be in the same place. and to get the scoop on monsters, im ok with carrying probing :-)
Well, you don't have to use spoilers, but if you're anything like me, eventually you will (passively) memorize what (almost) every effect/monster does. (Of course some things in Poscheng are so illogical that they might be beyond learning this way. I'm thinking specifically the whole "virtues" system here. Thankfully it's optional.)
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Old June 18, 2016, 18:26   #226
Therem Harth
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In my fork of ToME 2.x, I've decided to just remove the monster memory entirely in favor of full knowledge. Much simpler and gets rid of ton of (likely) buggy code.
Nifty. When will you be able to push to GitHub? I want to check this out.
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Old June 19, 2016, 13:51   #227
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Nifty. When will you be able to push to GitHub? I want to check this out.
I'll try to get things into order for pushing to GH in a few days, I think.
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Old June 20, 2016, 21:57   #228
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I'll try to get things into order for pushing to GH in a few days, I think.
Pushed to GitHub.

Apologies for the thread hijack.
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Old June 21, 2016, 19:28   #229
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Cool. I'll see if I can get the no-traps branch sorted out then.

/me vacates thread
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Old June 22, 2016, 20:58   #230
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So elementals & food sources. Air eats staves right, & water potions. Fire elementals start with oil flasks but can't seem to eat them & Earth I can't work out what the deal is there.
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