Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 28, 2016, 11:58   #11
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,652
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
BOTH my computers had bad updates recently. I will look in to this after I get at least one of them straightened out. (Windows 10 reset failed on one (which I am still using via the command line in a painful way); the other needs a full ISO to upgrade from a totally wedged Windows 8 install..which I need to download on a work machine or something.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2016, 03:36   #12
Bogatyr
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 448
Bogatyr is on a distinguished road
I have to say, 3.0.9b is really kicking my ass. The monsters all seem harder, more deadlier, the good drops at least below dlev 25 are few and far between (as in, practically nowhere to be seen), everything is super expensive (I play low charisma chars), and mage is way, way harder with the high mana cost attack spells. It seems that hounds breathe much more frequently as well.

Starting a mage is much harder since the point roller leaves a really puny STR after going for 18/50 INT. But it definitely results in an interesting, challenging game. It's not so much inventory management as weight management. That Great Axe of Westernesse is gathering dust at home and may be destined for the weapons shop if the shopkeeper ever changes away from the (5000) guy. An even -1 speed is deadly with the (apparently) more difficult monsters (druids are beasts: they haste-self AND summon like mad), so keeping an eye on weight is key.

It definitely is taking some adjustment. For one thing, as a consolation, sleep/confuse/slow all work with a much higher frequency (at least against orcs), and are indeed a major part of the mage's arsenal, as I recall from years before. I stopped using them in recent builds since the success rate became much lower. It is annoying that the mage can't rely on his attack spells to finish off fights, because he is still a crappy melee fighter. And arrows are so heavy and costly to enchant! I really miss the potions of Intellect: getting to an early 0% spell fail rate was key in my recent builds diving strategy. I've had to really slow my dive in the mid-20's just to stay alive, and pick fights and scenarios much more carefully. Combination management is key: a lowly tengu combined with dark hounds can kill a mage fast!

But it does keep me coming back. And I'm not even trying ironman or any other restrictions.

Last edited by Bogatyr; November 6, 2016 at 04:33.
Bogatyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2016, 16:34   #13
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,652
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
The spell frequency is the same. If you take longer killing a monster he will get in more spells--which happens because there's no scaled damage from magic devices. Starting Mage is really not a lot of fun in 3.0.x. Other classes are significantly stronger in the early game.

Hound packs are bigger, so more breaths. This is one change I think v4 gets really right.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2016, 16:31   #14
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,002
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Hound packs are bigger, so more breaths. This is one change I think v4 gets really right.
All grouped monsters are bigger, but hounds specifically were more frequent also. The 20s was the worst place to be in 3.0.6 because it was just hounds everywhere. They'd wreck your gear and never dropped anything to compensate. The best strategy (as I remember) was to quickly get down to the 30s where you can both find stat potions, and the elemental hounds were a bit less frequent, and then you can scum the 30s if you choose.

The problem with the hounds wasn't as much a difficulty problem as much as a tedium problem. They made the game difficult but in a not fun way. I'm glad there are less of them.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2016, 19:48   #15
Bogatyr
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 448
Bogatyr is on a distinguished road
Well after killing a very promising clev 30 hobbit mage (The Shadow casts a nether bolt -- More -- You Die) who was just starting to gain stat gain momentum, I decided to try human mage. The trade off of a couple more strength points and definitely more hit points and slightly faster leveling for a few less mana and spells per level is a pretty good one (after I walked in to a few floating eyes on dlev 1 several times, doh). Found a ring of See Invisible in the BM so "G"'s shouldn't be an issue now. A chest produced an early !Strength which gave me 2, so lots of breathing room and inv weight flexibility now.
Bogatyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2016, 19:58   #16
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
it was just hounds everywhere. They'd wreck your gear and never dropped anything to compensate.
Yup, the hounds made the dungeon somewhat dangerous, and they were an in-game method of encouraging players not to mindlessly clear levels. Obviously that sort of game mechanic doesn't belong.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2016, 20:24   #17
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,002
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Yup, the hounds made the dungeon somewhat dangerous, and they were an in-game method of encouraging players not to mindlessly clear levels. Obviously that sort of game mechanic doesn't belong.
Come on. You and I both know what kind of game play hounds in 3.0.x produced. Every single level you had to sit around the corner and wait for each hound to individually poke its head around so you can snipe it. It's not fun, it's tedious. The only difficulty it really introduced was in overcoming the urge to just quit the game and play something else.

Not only that, the hounds didn't even successfully serve the purpose of forcing players to descend. They just forced players not to hang out in specific ranges of levels where they were the most common.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2016, 21:49   #18
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,652
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Yup, the hounds made the dungeon somewhat dangerous, and they were an in-game method of encouraging players not to mindlessly clear levels. Obviously that sort of game mechanic doesn't belong.
Going to have to disagree. It doesn't take nearly so many hounds to be discouraging. The difference is it is less tedious to get thru when you really need to. If you want to make them more challenging, do it with better AI, not ridiculously large groups. (I used to pick up well over 100k EXP from a single pack of chaos or ethereal hounds. Just over the top.)
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7, 2016, 22:03   #19
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,014
Derakon is on a distinguished road
At least Ethereal Hounds swarm you, which makes them a much more interesting enemy to deal with. I wouldn't mind huge packs of Ethereal Hounds so much; they'd be a good match to the huge packs of Dreads that sometimes show up.

The other hound types are mostly just an introduction to what the different elements do; beyond that, once you know how to handle one hound type, you can use the same tactics on the other types.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8, 2016, 00:05   #20
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
(I used to pick up well over 100k EXP from a single pack of chaos or ethereal hounds. Just over the top.)
That's a different problem. My opinion remains consistent on this. A fixed amount of exp per monster type killed is my answer. I play with 1 exp per monster type killed and 1 exp per flavor learned, which works fine. I wouldn't necessarily argue with a different ratio for kills vs learning.

I nerfed hounds a bit in my own way, so it's fair to say that I'm not entirely on board with 3.0, but I'm less on board with 3.1+.

I will state that the numbers of *summoned* hounds in 3.0 are absurd. I'm not entirely insane.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am I the only one missing *angband Let's plays? TheQuest Variants 11 June 1, 2016 16:58
[3.5-dev] I know nobody plays with tiles but... PowerWyrm Vanilla 1 April 24, 2013 13:16
[Un, others] Eddie Grove patch andrewdoull Variants 14 September 6, 2008 09:07


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.