Class/magic feature branch

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Pete Mack

Minor note: thancs had been 2d4 (+4,+6) for as long as i can remember, until the bonuses were doubled, but enchantment scrolls were removed from the stores. (+6,+8) or so would be about the right compromise to make up for eliminating easy enchantment.

Version 3.0.4 improved them from 1d4 (+4,+6) to 2d4 (+4,+6).

[Derakon]

Well, my memory is superior in one respect, then. Or maybe I've just been around longer.

But seriously, an artifact you can semi-reliably find very early on that does 3d4+6 damage per blow against most targets, and has an activation for a reasonably powerful ranged attack, is bonkers good for the first 20 levels. Doubling its damage (3d4+6 -> 6d4+12) makes it viable through level 40 and strips out pretty much any opportunity for the player to find intermediary upgrades that aren't artifacts.

I assume the upgrades happened because people kept complaining about finding *thancs and feeling like they weren't special enough (since they're basically just branded daggers with an activation). Of course they aren't special, they're level-1 artifacts!

[Philip]

Oangband actually had a very simple and elegant fix for *thancs not seeming special enough. In O they are dice-boosted to 1d5. Not really a game-changer, even with the way damage works in O, but it does make them stand out a bit, at least to newer players (more experienced players know that an activation for 6-8d8 damage or so, which you can use at least once per fight, is impressive enough).

[Derakon]

As I recall, Oangband also uses the dice as the basis for all damage, so going to 1d5 is about a 20% damage boost compared to 1d4 assuming enchantment level is held constant. But yeah, making their dice slightly better would help them stand out more.

[kaypy]

The druid lightning strike spell has a weird effect where if the initial strike kills the target, then the sound burst lands at the player instead.

On the necromancer side of things, it seems odd that Morgoth has no spirit.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by kaypy

The druid lightning strike spell has a weird effect where if the initial strike kills the target, then the sound burst lands at the player instead.

Hmm, maybe that needs some work.

Originally Posted by kaypy

On the necromancer side of things, it seems odd that Morgoth has no spirit.

That's definitely an omission.

[kaypy]

I also think that for most of the dual element spells, it ought to inflict all damage before handling monster death.

The exceptions are where the spell explicitly calls for sequential attacks, most notably Meteor Swarm. However, Lightning Strike is also described as sequential, so now might not have been the best time to raise the issue 8-)

Oh, and also on LS, its odd that it does more sound damage than lightning...

[Sky]

Its not that the thancs are great but rather that by the silly way blows work, you find better weapons when you cannot use them, and by the time you *can* use them, you have found even better stuff.

A real life katana is around 2.5 pounds.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Originally Posted by Sky

Its not that the thancs are great but rather that by the silly way blows work, you find better weapons when you cannot use them, and by the time you *can* use them, you have found even better stuff.

A real life katana is around 2.5 pounds.

+1 Yes! Totally agree.

[luneya]

Originally Posted by Sky

Its not that the thancs are great but rather that by the silly way blows work, you find better weapons when you cannot use them, and by the time you *can* use them, you have found even better stuff.

A real life katana is around 2.5 pounds.

None of the object weights are realistic when considered as actual weights--not just weapons, but every single object in the game. They're derived from the old D&D encumbrance tables, and are intended as a measure of how inconvenient an object is to carry. Think of an object's game weight as being something like a sum of its actual weight and its volume. Things that are small and dense are easier to carry around than bulky objects of equivalent mass, and the displayed weight reflects this.

This encumbrance system actually works pretty well as a model of how much stuff a character can carry in his backpack before it slows him down, since in the real world that certainly does depend on both weight and volume. For weapons that are actually being wielded rather than merely carried, it's totally unrealistic, but it still serves a useful gameplay function in making it so that there are meaningful distinctions between different types of weapon.