Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Variants

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 26, 2020, 20:26   #1
GrimaTheBold
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 9
GrimaTheBold is on a distinguished road
FrogComposband new player - Weapon Proficiency Questions

Lately I've felt Vanilla was a little too vanilla, so I'm trying FrogComposband on Angband.live. So far I love it. For example the way a Paladin can specialize in different realms of magic seems so much richer than Vanilla, especially with the more austere spells available in 4.2.

My question is, for a melee-class like a Warrior or Paladin, how significant are weapon choices to become proficient in in the early game? I'm used to NetHack where it's a big deal, but it doesn't seem nearly as important in this game as far as I can tell. If I find a good early weapon, do I need to think strategically about later weapon choices before I start spending time and gaining proficiency with that weapon? Does gaining early proficiency in a weapon limit your ability to gain proficiency later in different weapons (for example is there a limit on how many weapons you can become proficient in)?

Am I correct in thinking that in Frog, switching to a different type of weapon and "wasting" the time spent improving proficiency in the prior weapon type isn't as big a deal as in NetHack?

And last question, what's the advice on dual wielding? Is it like NetHack in that you should wait until you have a high degree of mastery of the individual weapons before dual wielding? And if you wield two dissimilar weapons at once, are you simultaneously training in both weapon types and in dual wielding, i.e. training 3 different proficiencies?
GrimaTheBold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2020, 20:38   #2
Sideways
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 473
Sideways is on a distinguished road
You are right, switching between weapons is generally no big deal.

The dev version has better help files than the last official release (7.1.chocolate) did, here's the relevant part from the new proficiency help file:

Quote:
The Proficiency System

FrogComposband has a number of independent proficiency systems - weapon proficiency, spell proficiency, riding proficiency, martial arts proficiency and dual-wielding proficiency. All of these are closely related and have many similarities; in particular, your proficiency is indicated by the rough labels [Un]skilled, [Be]ginner, [Sk]illed, [Ex]pert and [Ma]ster, and you have proficiency caps which are usually class-dependent and denote the highest proficiency you can actually attain. There are also some key differences between the systems, though; the practical meanings of the five labels vary from skill to skill, as do the ways in which proficiency can be gained.

Weapon Proficiency


You have an independent proficiency for each kind of melee and missile weapon in the game - one proficiency for daggers, another for small swords, a third for maces, a fourth for light crossbows, and so on. You also have independent proficiency caps for each kind of weapon, though there tends to be a fair bit of correlation: if your cap is high for a particular weapon, it is probably also high for similar weapons.

You can view both your current proficiencies, and the proficiency caps, through the ~ Knowledge Menu's Proficiency section. You can press M to toggle between four different display modes: current proficiency (displayed first), proficiency caps, current proficiency as a percentage of caps, and current proficiency as a percentage of full mastery. The percentage displays allow you to track your progress in finer detail than the five rough labels alone.

The most important difference between weapon proficiency and other proficiencies is that [Be]ginner is acceptably good as a proficiency cap for a weapon. This is not the case for most other proficiencies
; for riding and dual-wielding you really want a Master cap or at the very least Expert. But the weapon caps are not nearly as important, and only an [Un]skilled cap should really worry you.

Weapon proficiency is gained by hitting or attempting to hit a monster with a weapon. High proficiency can only be attained by fighting high-level monsters. New players are occasionally mystified by why their proficiency does not seem to improve in the early game; this happens if you start the game already having Beginner proficiency or better, as the first monsters you meet will then be too low-level to allow proficiency improvement.

The effect of weapon proficiency is a moderate bonus or penalty to your accuracy, ranging from -20 to-hit at 0% proficiency to +20 to-hit at full mastery.

Dual-Wielding Proficiency

Dual-wielding proficiency, and its proficiency cap, are extremely important for any character who wishes to dual-wield (unless they do so with no intention to melee). Like weapon proficiency, dual-wielding proficiency can be checked through the ~P menu.

Dual-wielding proficiency is gained by fighting monsters in melee while dual-wielding. As with weapons, high dual-wielding proficiency can only be attained by fighting high-level monsters. Low proficiency gives a sizeable penalty to your accuracy, plus (unless you have gloves of Genji) a moderate penalty to your damage. For nearly all characters, dual-wielding proficiency starts at an extremely penalizing level; it takes quite a while of missing on all your hits to reach a point where your damage output from two weapons is even close to what it would be from a single weapon. Because of this, it is a good idea to check your cap before you start dual-wielding on a melee character; if your cap is low, all that effort will have been in vain, as you will always be better off with a single weapon.

Even at very high mastery, dual-wielding is only rarely your best option in terms of pure damage. The main allure of dual-wielding is in the opportunity to gain the bonuses and resistances of two weapons.
Dual-wielding works best with relatively light weapons, though if you are really good at both melee in general and dual-wielding specifically you can get decent damage and accuracy out of heavy weapons too.
__________________
The Complainer worries about the lack of activity here these days.
Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2020, 22:08   #3
GrimaTheBold
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 9
GrimaTheBold is on a distinguished road
That was very helpful, thanks!
GrimaTheBold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2020, 23:03   #4
CyclopsSlayer
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 330
CyclopsSlayer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Dual-wielding works best with relatively light weapons, though if you are really good at both melee in general and dual-wielding specifically you can get decent damage and accuracy out of heavy weapons too.
Do the Main Gauche and Wakizashi when in the offhand still give Dual Wield bonuses?

Haven't played my DW Ninja in quite some time.
CyclopsSlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27, 2020, 08:00   #5
Sideways
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 473
Sideways is on a distinguished road
They do, though it's not a huge bonus, equivalent to about +7.7% of dual-wielding proficiency.
__________________
The Complainer worries about the lack of activity here these days.
Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
frogcomposband frogcomposband: Angband needs an 80x24 'curses' scre poschengbandplayer Variants 2 August 19, 2019 15:13
New Player, Questions Joe Vanilla 12 October 6, 2015 15:00
Custom weapon questions Zambaku Vanilla 6 May 3, 2013 10:53
[Entro] Ninja weapon proficiency Donald Jonker Variants 1 February 4, 2009 06:29
Some weapon questions (spoilers) Wraitheist Vanilla 36 September 13, 2008 03:39


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.