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Old February 8, 2020, 19:27   #1
wobbly
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Time stands still

Random insight for the day, its actual possible for a character to act faster then the internal time clicks of the game. The fastest energy recovery/click is +49. The fastest possible movement speed for standarts is 25 energy (wormtongue boots in eagle form) & a lvl 50 ranger with a plain bow shoots for 33 energy/shot.

Now I'd have to double check through all the mechanics to be sure but it does seem a fast enough angband hero breaks time. You act & no time passes, till the 2nd action.
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Old February 8, 2020, 20:01   #2
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For a bit of context, philosophically this is meh, who cares, mathematicians & physicists deal with worse all the time. Game play wise, I had to explain to someone why Carcaroth can't move through lava he creates. He actually can, I just get to shoot him 70,000 times before he moves. Which is maybe ok. I get more & more ok with V being mechanically broken all the time, it allows you to create fun by taking riduculious risks to win quicker & there's a bunch of people not winning, some of them good. Still.. fact is this is pretty broken...

He also did about 5 damage breathing poison with 10 stars of health. I'm unsure if that's breathe attenuation & double resists stacking or something wrong in the code. He managed 100 against nether resist at 1/2 the health & half the distance.
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Old February 8, 2020, 21:09   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Random insight for the day, its actual possible for a character to act faster then the internal time clicks of the game. The fastest energy recovery/click is +49. The fastest possible movement speed for standarts is 25 energy (wormtongue boots in eagle form) & a lvl 50 ranger with a plain bow shoots for 33 energy/shot.

Now I'd have to double check through all the mechanics to be sure but it does seem a fast enough angband hero breaks time. You act & no time passes, till the 2nd action.
You can't shoot in eagle form, so they don't all stack.
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Old February 8, 2020, 21:43   #4
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Breath attenuation should not have that big an effect anymore. In certain versions (~4.0) it was extreme, and indeed double resistance at 200' distance would do around 25 damage, which could easily look more like 13 damage, assuming 18/220 CON and the right timing. I don't see how it could get as low as 5, though.
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Old February 8, 2020, 21:48   #5
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Stunned if it matters. I'd hit him a couple of time, but not enough to knock of a star, he should be well above the cap, I have regen, but yeah my hps went from full to not much below 10 damage. Full range, straight corridor
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Old February 9, 2020, 00:21   #6
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Is this 4.2? Or an older version. The initial implementation of attenuation was horribly unbalanced, but I haven't seen it recently.
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Old February 9, 2020, 02:10   #7
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OK, here's the calculation. Carcharoth at anything down to 3 stars will breathe the cap, which is 800. Damage attenuation starts at the 4th grid away from him (would be 6th if he had the POWERFUL flag). So damage at distance will be:
Code:
 1 grid  | 800
 2 grids | 800
 3 grids | 800
 4 grids | 640
 5 grids | 517
 6 grids | 457
 7 grids | 400
 8 grids | 355
 9 grids | 320
10 grids | 290
11 grids | 266
12 grids | 244
13 grids | 228
14 grids | 213
15 grids | 200
16 grids | 188
17 grids | 177
18 grids | 168
19 grids | 160
20 grids | 152
So allowing for double resist, the damage ranges from 66 at close range down to 16 at full range, which seems to more or less check out.
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Old February 9, 2020, 04:12   #8
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Thanks. It seems pretty hard for much to be a threat to late game rangers, short of having darkstorm, manastorm, netherstorm etc. Even if its hitting a resist hole just being full range means you're not taking much damage & even with nerfed shots you don't have the same problem. You can certainly dish it out. Wormtongue's boots have also been crazy - you're always standing in the right spot & everything is making half as many checks to wake up.
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Old February 10, 2020, 04:43   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Random insight for the day, its actual possible for a character to act faster then the internal time clicks of the game. The fastest energy recovery/click is +49. The fastest possible movement speed for standarts is 25 energy (wormtongue boots in eagle form) & a lvl 50 ranger with a plain bow shoots for 33 energy/shot.

Now I'd have to double check through all the mechanics to be sure but it does seem a fast enough angband hero breaks time. You act & no time passes, till the 2nd action.
Time is still passing, just less than a game turn. If you were fighting a monster that also got +49 energy per game turn, and let's say that the energy counts were

You: 148
Monster: 147

Then you take your 25-energy movement action. Now the energy counts are

You: 123
Monster: 147

Even though you still have enough energy for a turn, the monster now gets to go because it has more energy than you do.

However, you're correct that nothing with less than 100 energy would have a prayer of taking an action in that time.
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