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Old July 10, 2020, 22:39   #31
whartung
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On the other side of the coin, there does not seem to be any monster affects like, say, "Nausea" that consumes your food level.

The only thing I know of so far is the salt water potion, which, ideally, you don't drink blindly in combat.
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Old July 10, 2020, 22:45   #32
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Yeah its tangental but I'd support the addition of something like the apparition of hunger.
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Old July 10, 2020, 22:48   #33
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Yeah, having monsters who did something interesting with the food meter could help. Monsters who fill your food meter, monsters who drain it, monsters who invert the effects of food (i.e. eating decreases your satiation while the effect is active). Maybe traps that mess with your satiation. Buffs that improve or decrease depending on satiation level.

Though if we want to have buffs be effected, we would definitely need more options for decreasing satiation.

But please dont replace food with cooldown on potions. I hate cooldowns.
Having cooldowns on rods is tolerable, mostly because I use them for utility (except for rods of TO to teleport isolated monsters). But I hate cooldowns on things I use during combat.
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Old July 10, 2020, 23:30   #34
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Possibly an outlier here but I like the new meter.

As a Druid I was constantly looking for food to sustain Rapid Regeneration. It took on a whole new significance for me.

As a Blackguard I ended up playing much faster and more aggressively and found myself with the "can't take another CLW potion right now" effect.

Both cases are examples of how my actual play style was adjusted. (Don't throw anything at me but) Perhaps expanding the mechanic? Half-Orcs & Half-Trolls can't touch Lembas (mentioned upthread) but aren't affected by "scrap of flesh" and get a rFear bonus from "orcish liquor" (like whiskey/wine). Hobbitses receive double nourishment from mushrooms and wine but reduced satiation from other types...

Just a thought that adding expanded food impacts to race/class selections in such fashion as to impact how we handle them would make it more relevant and interesting (for those who do not find it so at present).
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Old July 12, 2020, 05:45   #35
licker
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Or...

Just make it a birth option.

I still don't understand at all the issue with potions, but I guess I play the micro game because I understand how it works now.

My, again probably irrelevant opinion, is that new classes are somewhat beside the point in this discussion. If the food system is something that certain classes are supposed to interact with more than others (but it's really the rest system, not so much the food system) then perhaps it should only affect those classes.

I still don't see how anyone can really argue that the food system (or hunger if you prefer) is adding anything 'interesting' to the game. It's a mechanic which is nominally trivial to deal with, but requires a strange micro management dance to maximize. If the goal is to make an interesting system which the player must make decisions on, it has failed. Because, once you understand the system, and how/if it matters to your character, there is no longer any actual decision to make. You simply have to perform the rote actions to maximize it.

Now, those actions are not really so terrible in the grand scheme of things. Certainly past versions of Angband had other mechanics which were far more annoying to deal with. But, none the less, having to make what amount to meaningless actions everytime you return to town (or everytime you need to manage your hunger in the dungeon through your inventory) is just something I don't understand the point of.

If it's just for the sake of immersion? Then the old system was perfectly fine.
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Old July 12, 2020, 19:30   #36
DavidMedley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by licker View Post
Or...

Just make it a birth option.
I almost made a snarky suggestion like this before, but I was a bit regretful of being so snarky earlier. So, with all due apologies, why not make food a birth option? That is, set the player permanently at 50% fed, and eliminate all items that give nourishment. I wonder how many players would choose to eliminate both the oh-so-hated food meter and also Cure Wounds potions and mushrooms and such?
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Old July 13, 2020, 17:46   #37
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Is there space for a haste-metabolism effect? Like with regen but without the HP gain. Another "sometimes-useful-curse-like" factor that occurs occasionally.

Thematically it might also make sense with some equipment as a "not as bad as experience drain" negative.

Extending the thought, potentially a shadow spell "Famine" which would reduce hunger meter to 5% on monsters forcing them to flee (find food) or faint (sleep)?

As a monster effect on the player that could be even more intriguing.
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Old July 13, 2020, 17:56   #38
whartung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMedley View Post
I almost made a snarky suggestion like this before, but I was a bit regretful of being so snarky earlier. So, with all due apologies, why not make food a birth option? That is, set the player permanently at 50% fed, and eliminate all items that give nourishment. I wonder how many players would choose to eliminate both the oh-so-hated food meter and also Cure Wounds potions and mushrooms and such?
I honestly don't think I'd hesitate.

The mushrooms are nice, but with inventory pressure for the "required" stuff so high as it is, there's pretty much never any room for the mushrooms for those rare points that I might want to use them.

I've eaten some off the floor for a random buff now and then, but I certainly wouldn't miss them.

In games like Nethack, etc., I've always hated the food system. As always, it's One More Way for the RNG to kill you. It's feast or famine. With permanent food in the store, now it's just Yet Another Inv slot permanently allocated.

There was a fun story about how some pranksters at Cal Tech inserted one of those tags that stores use to prevent shoplifting in to a students ID card. Simply, whenever he walked through the detectors at the door of a store, he'd set them off.

Later he was observed walking in and out of stores with his wallet over his head.

That's what the food system is, it's a bother readily overcome.

You don't even have to be paying a lot of attention to it. I tried micromanaging with the different food stuffs, trying to maximize weight efficiency per food value, etc., and it just wasn't worth it. Now I simply run around with 5 rations of food all the time, top off when I notice I'm hungry, and dump the food on the ground immediately before Recall if I find something interesting on the floor I need to take back Home.

Now, if I had a "mushroom sack" in an Inv slot that I could put some of the different mushrooms in, like a quiver? Maybe I'd carry that. Maybe.
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Old July 13, 2020, 18:43   #39
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
I honestly don't think I'd hesitate.
You wouldn't miss Cure Light/Serious/Critical Wounds potions?
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Old July 13, 2020, 19:11   #40
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Why do you have to remove all food items?

Just leave them in the game but make the meter have zero effect no matter where it is.

That's probably easier than trying to remove the interactions of food items with the meter, but I'm no coder so I have no idea.

Or just set the upper limit on the meter to 100,000,000 or something and start characters at 50,000,000 or whatever. I suppose salt water may still be a concern, so just remove it from the game. !Death got that treatment didn't it?
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