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Old December 14, 2010, 19:08   #1
Lord Fell
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Changes to the Stores & Shopping?

In the "making Angband harder" thread, a lot of discussion about the way stores worked came up. Since that particular thread is pretty wide-ranging, I thought it would be beneficial to start a new thread dedicated to thoughts and suggestions about how stores work.
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Old December 14, 2010, 19:26   #2
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I modified the store_own.txt pretty heavily, and I thought I'd post that here. List and reasons for changes to follow:

# Maximum number of owners per store
M:B:6

# General Store
N:0
S:250:Ludmilla Sackville (Hobbit)
S:500:Brittany the Shrill (Harpy)
S:500:Snafu the Midget (Gnome)
S:750:Rincewind the Chicken (Human)
S:750:Sandyman the Grocer (Hobbit)
S:1000:Lyar-el the Comely (Elf)

# Armoury
N:1
S:15000:Kon-Dar the Ugly (Half-Orc)
S:20000:Darg-Low the Grim (Human)
S:20000:Mauglin the Grumpy (Dwarf)
S:25000:Eliglizanda Tanknoddy (Gnome)
S:25000:Decado the Handsome (Dundan)
S:30000:Caerin Shieldmaster (Half-Elf)

# Weapon Smith
N:2
S:15000:Ithyl-Mak the Beastly (Half-Troll)
S:20000:Jemma the Axe-Smith (Dwarf)
S:20000:Tarl Beast-Master (Hobbit)
S:25000:Aiden the Blade-Smith (Human)
S:25000:Arndal Beast-Slayer (Half-Elf)
S:30000:Oglign Dragon-Slayer (Dwarf)

# Temple
N:3
S:10000:Ludwig the Humble (Human)
S:12500:Gunnar the Paladin (Dunadan)
S:12500:Brother Urkog (Half-Orc)
S:15000:Bosk the Wise (Dwarf)
S:15000:Delilah the Pure (Elf)
S:20000:Obdano the Abbot (Human)


# Alchemist
N:4
S:2500:Ga-nat the Greedy (Gnome)
S:5000:Mauser the Chemist (Half-Elf)
S:5000:Pablobax the Brewer (Yeek)
S:7500:Pech Crispy-Toes (Kobold)
S:7500:Wizzle the Chaotic (Hobbit)
S:10000:Vella the Slender (Human)


# Magic Shop
N:5
S:10000:Ariel the Sorceress (Half-Elf)
S:12500:Hakzor the Apprentice (Yeek)
S:12500:Inglorian the Mage (Human)
S:15000:Luthien Starshine (High-Elf)
S:15000:Palindar the Cyan (Dunadan)
S:20000:Buggerby the Great (Gnome)


# Black Market
N:6
S:15000:Birjitte the Schill (Harpy)
S:20000:Sangudo the Easterling (Human)
S:20000:Lo-Hak the Awful (Half-Troll)
S:25000:Drago the Fair (Elf)
S:25000:Durwin the Shifty (Half-Orc)
S:30000:Histor the Goblin (Kobold)

# Home
N:7
S:0:Your home
S:0:Your home
S:0:Your home
S:0:Your home
S:0:Your home
S:0:Your home

Changes:
In General Store, I replaced Bilbo the Friendly with Ludmilla Sackville -I think that Bilbo ought to be a sacred character, and not relegated to slinging iron rations at the trading post.

I made Gunnar the Paladin a Dunadan -as I'd added a 2nd Human to the Temple.

I increased the available store owners to 6, to allow for a wider cast of characters, and (since I've added yeeks and harpies to my playable races) to allow for "full representation" of the p_races.

I drastically changed the available purse for each store. I still wanted there to be stingy and generous shopkeeps, but a common complaint is that "I need money, but Ithylmak won't give me more than 5K for my Awl-Pike (Defender)." I also thought it was silly that the General Store had a potential purse of 5K - 30K. There's really not much in the dungeon that the General Store should be paying more than 100g for.

Changes I'd Like to See (but can't code myself):
Making it possible to allow for a random array of store names. For example, sometimes the Magic Shop could be called The Wizard's Staff, sometimes it might be called Rod & Staff Emporium.

Adding buy at and sell at ratios. In addition to having different purse limits, I think something like this would also add character to a shop-keeper. What I mean is that, for example, this entry:
S:250:Ludmilla Sackville (Hobbit):60:110
The 60, means that if an item is "worth" 100 gold, Ludmilla will give you 60 for it. If an item is worth 100, she would sell it for 110. A "normal" shopkeep ought to be 100:100, buying and selling goods at a fair price. A buy-at rate of less than 100 indicates stinginess, and a buy at rate over 100 would actually mean the shopkeeper is generous with cash, or a bad bargainer.
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Old December 14, 2010, 19:37   #3
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What's the problem with the way they work now, again? Stuff's too easy to come by? I think at the very least, stat restore potions and Word of Recall should continue to be relatively easy to come by in shops. Making them less likely to be stocked in stores just means folks will slog around the easier levels till they find the potions/scrolls they need anyway. That sounds like making the game more annoying/tedious rather than more difficult.
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Old December 14, 2010, 19:51   #4
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There was a suggestion to remove Word of Recall altogether, replacing it with portals -- a portal found in the dungeon would return you to town, while the fixed portal in town would take you to the depth of the last portal you used. The suggestion seemed positively received; it just remains for someone to implement it.

(I suppose Word of Recall could stay as an ad-hoc portal generator, but in such case it wouldn't have to be sold in the town)
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Old December 14, 2010, 19:53   #5
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Oh, the portal idea sounds nifty. I think it would be a fine replacement for Word of Recall. Having to find a way to get back isn't bad (just reading a scroll/zapping a rod does seem rather easy), as long as it doesn't require traveling through tens of levels.
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Old December 14, 2010, 20:17   #6
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fell View Post
I modified the store_own.txt pretty heavily, and I thought I'd post that here. List and reasons for changes to follow:

# General Store
S:500:Brittany the Shrill (Harpy)
# Alchemist
S:5000:Pablobax the Brewer (Yeek)
# Magic Shop
S:12500:Hakzor the Apprentice (Yeek)
# Black Market
S:15000:Birjitte the Schill (Harpy)
Which variant is this supposed to be? Those races have meaning, so vanilla it can't be.
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Old December 14, 2010, 20:21   #7
Derakon
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As he mentioned later in his post, this is his personal variant, which adds yeeks and harpies as playable races. Obviously those storekeepers wouldn't be added to Vanilla unless like-named races were also added.
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Old December 14, 2010, 20:25   #8
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
As he mentioned later in his post, this is his personal variant, which adds yeeks and harpies as playable races.
Missed that. It was nearly TLDR, browsing thru text that didn't register in my brain.
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Old December 14, 2010, 22:22   #9
takkaria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Which variant is this supposed to be? Those races have meaning, so vanilla it can't be.
What meaning?
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takkaria whispers something about options. -more-
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Old December 14, 2010, 22:29   #10
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
What meaning?
Has that been removed? Race affected what kind of prices you were offered. Dwarf gave better deals with other dwarfs than for example elves. Orcs hated everybody. That sort of things. It was standard behavior not so long ago that one shopkeeper offered better deals than other. For example potions can be sold in three different stores (four actually but lets leave BM out), so you could offer potions in each and sell it to best. It was minor feature, but it add some flavor in the game.
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