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View Poll Results: What sort of wilderness do you like (see OP for details)
No Wilderness 8 21.62%
Single Level (Scaled Up) Wilderness 5 13.51%
Multiple Level (Grid Based) Wilderness 6 16.22%
Abstract Wilderness 5 13.51%
Grid Based Wilderness with Connected Dungeons 13 35.14%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 13, 2010, 12:08   #21
Bostock
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I suppose I should comment too.

Wilderness isn't necessary, but it can be fine and even fun, as long as it isn't a chore -- FAAngband, I'm looking at you. (The first time I played FAAngband, I immediately abandoned it because I didn't understand paths, my bad. But the second, time, I abandoned it because I'd reached like 18th clevel and still hadn't reached the shallowest dungeon, because it was all the way across a literal couple dozen maps away from my starting town (Longbeard).)
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Old December 13, 2010, 12:32   #22
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Originally Posted by Bostock View Post
(The first time I played FAAngband, I immediately abandoned it because I didn't understand paths, my bad. But the second, time, I abandoned it because I'd reached like 18th clevel and still hadn't reached the shallowest dungeon, because it was all the way across a literal couple dozen maps away from my starting town (Longbeard).)
Well, it was the Valar and Morgoth who shaped Middle Earth. If you don't like the way they did it, I suggest you take it up with them...

Seriously, try a thrall or dungeon-only mode.
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Old December 13, 2010, 12:35   #23
Bostock
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Oh, but I enjoy wilderness as such, just not in such big doses.

What's a thrall?
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Old December 13, 2010, 12:40   #24
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What's a thrall?
A bit like a lost soul in ToME - you start on the steps of Angband in DL58 wilderness. At level 1.
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Old December 13, 2010, 16:33   #25
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I am probably the only V dev that really likes wilderness. Most of the wilderness implementations I've seen are interesting, but I have particularly fond memories of the Cthangband wilderness, with different dungeons marked on an overland map. I remember going to Kadath and getting my best character killed, for instance

The 3-D connected dungeon wilderness option sounds amazing, but I voted for the basic 2-D same resolution wilderness just because that's what I've enjoyed.
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Old December 16, 2010, 09:09   #26
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The wilderness is probably the primary thing I disliked about FAangband. It kind of feels like an attempt at "open ended" play, like Oblivion has... but the scope of a Roguelike is just too limited for that to really work.

I tend to prefer the simplicity of Vanilla:
This is your town, this is your dungeon, this is your mission. Go hard.
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Old December 16, 2010, 10:04   #27
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The wilderness is probably the primary thing I disliked about FAangband. It kind of feels like an attempt at "open ended" play, like Oblivion has... but the scope of a Roguelike is just too limited for that to really work.
I see your point.

What I have tried (with I think some but not complete success) to do in FA is to make the wilderness a regular part of the game rather than an add-on. I don't expect any player to go to every bit of the wilderness - in fact, there may be bits that no-one will ever go to.

You're lucky you never played early versions where there was more wilderness
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Old December 16, 2010, 12:40   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m View Post
I am probably the only V dev that really likes wilderness. Most of the wilderness implementations I've seen are interesting, but I have particularly fond memories of the Cthangband wilderness, with different dungeons marked on an overland map. I remember going to Kadath and getting my best character killed, for instance

The 3-D connected dungeon wilderness option sounds amazing, but I voted for the basic 2-D same resolution wilderness just because that's what I've enjoyed.
Actually, the 3-D connected dungeon wilderness isn't as amazing as it sounds.

I experimented with it for Hellband (before talking wilderness out completely).

The problem is that although it means you can go anywhere, everywhere ends up the same so there's little reason to do so.

I think that for Yeekband I'm going to go back to the Cthangband-style of wilderness. That gave you a good reason to go to different dungeons and towns (and they were reasonably close together so it was hard to get lost), which made it far less tiresome and samey.
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Old December 17, 2010, 03:43   #29
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Yeekband
Yeekband? This gives me the idea of having BadguyBand where the PC starts as a yeek, snaga or small kobold, and has to eventually kill the hero who killed Morgoth. Someone should totally do that.
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Old December 17, 2010, 08:25   #30
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Yeekband? This gives me the idea of having BadguyBand where the PC starts as a yeek, snaga or small kobold, and has to eventually kill the hero who killed Morgoth. Someone should totally do that.
Or start in the depths and go to the surface kill Valar (is that is name?) which actually is the black market maintainer.
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