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Old December 20, 2010, 01:38   #91
Derakon
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Really the only argument I can give against linearization is that I'd have to figure out where all the breakpoints are all over again because I'm used to the current system. Realistically we should probably linearize everything...and maybe get rid of the 18/220 cap while we're at it.
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Old December 20, 2010, 05:59   #92
Lord Fell
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The 18/%% system was incorporated for the AD&D "Unearthed Arcana" supplement, for the Cavalier character class, for Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. I don't entirely remember how it worked, but I believe that they could gain a d10 to their percentile stat every time they leveled... allowing them to increase their physical stats "to human perfection" as they gained levels. From there, it was incorporated into Strength... mostly because it was impossible to tell which of two meaty, 18 Strength warriors was actually stronger.

I should think that since D&D shelved percentile strength stats back around '99, Angband doesn't really have a historical reason to use it anymore either.
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Old December 20, 2010, 07:48   #93
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fell View Post
I should think that since D&D shelved percentile strength stats back around '99, Angband doesn't really have a historical reason to use it anymore either.
18 + 22 gives nice round number of 40 as max stat. 18 is 18, 23 is 18/50, 28 is 18/100, 38 is 18/200. Quite easy to remember basic breakpoints.

If someone would make a poll I would vote for removal of 18/xxx system.
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Old December 20, 2010, 08:56   #94
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Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
No, increments haven't changed. I went from 18 to 18/14 to 18/04 to 18/03.
Ok. Fortunately this was an easy fix, and should be in nightlies shortly.
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Old December 20, 2010, 09:05   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fell View Post
The 18/%% system was incorporated for the AD&D "Unearthed Arcana" supplement, for the Cavalier character class, for Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. I don't entirely remember how it worked, but I believe that they could gain a d10 to their percentile stat every time they leveled... allowing them to increase their physical stats "to human perfection" as they gained levels. From there, it was incorporated into Strength... mostly because it was impossible to tell which of two meaty, 18 Strength warriors was actually stronger.
You have it backwards. The original 1E Players Handbook had percentile STR for Fighters, Paladins and Rangers only, and only for a base STR of 18. Unearthed Arcana, which was released nearly a decade later, added percentiles for other stats for the Cavalier and Paladin, but the implementation was different. There was no difference between a stat of 14 and one of 14/99, it was simply a mechanism of allowing those classes to increase their stats on level-up (by 2d10 percentage points).

That's my recollection of ~25 years ago, anyway.

There is already a ticket to linearise the stats, btw, so there's no real disagreement about this. It's just a matter of priority - it's a largely cosmetic change, so it's always going to get put off if something more important or exciting needs doing.
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Old December 20, 2010, 11:18   #96
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Just a quick note to say that the changes of fractal blows and the new multipliers for ranged attacks (arrows/bolts/etc...) are brilliant. I haven't had a chance to look at the rest of the changes, but those are great ideas.
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Old December 20, 2010, 15:13   #97
Derakon
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Fractal blows!

You hit the kobold. -more-
You hit the kobold. -more-
You hit the kobold. -more-
...
You hit the kobold. -more-
...
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Old December 20, 2010, 15:40   #98
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+1 to linearize the stats. I have a half-made variant of Hengband where I switched to linear stats, it wasn't very difficult or time-consuming.

I'll install Git and see if I can whip up a patch for this.
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Old December 20, 2010, 16:05   #99
Derakon
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The main thing with linearized stats is that we'd need to rework stat gain post-18. If you assign 18/10 => 19, 18/20 => 20, etc, then currently characters zip through the area between 18 and 27 unusually quickly, and then it takes several potions to hit 28 (speaking about internal stats here). Ideally IMO each potion should correspond to a single point gain. Certainly you shouldn't drink a potion and see no apparent improvement -- going from 18/90 to 18/95 would seem to do nothing with linearized stats.
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Old December 20, 2010, 16:12   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
The main thing with linearized stats is that we'd need to rework stat gain post-18. If you assign 18/10 => 19, 18/20 => 20, etc, then currently characters zip through the area between 18 and 27 unusually quickly, and then it takes several potions to hit 28 (speaking about internal stats here). Ideally IMO each potion should correspond to a single point gain. Certainly you shouldn't drink a potion and see no apparent improvement -- going from 18/90 to 18/95 would seem to do nothing with linearized stats.
This is actually pretty trivial - you need to *remove* code from player_inc_stat() that messes around with d10 rolls, and just add 1 in all cases.
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