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Old June 11, 2014, 14:51   #481
Infinitum
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The way the Sil system ties simple mechanics to simulation is beautiful and should not be changed under any circumstances. Besides, the early game is chancy enough without making early armor even more important than it currently is.

As for items only providing positives "making you feel awesome" and "being good game design".. eh. To each his own I suppose; I quite like weighing pros and cons against eachother, and having a naked player character as the baseline makes more sense than an arbitrary maximumally cumbersome armor or whatever.
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Old June 11, 2014, 14:55   #482
intently
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Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
The way the Sil system ties simple mechanics to simulation is beautiful and should not be changed under any circumstances. Besides, the early game is chancy enough without making early armor even more important than it currently is.

As for items only providing positives "making you feel awesome" and "being good game design".. eh. To each his own I suppose; I quite like weighing pros and cons against eachother, and having a naked player character as the baseline makes more sense than an arbitrary maximumally cumbersome armor or whatever.
Sure, I can see how these design choices make sense for the Sil player community. And I understand that the goal is to make a game that "some people love", rather than "lots of people like".

But there's a reason that most games don't have gear and abilities with lots of penalties to balance against each other
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Old June 11, 2014, 20:55   #483
taptap
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My overall point is that it is less fun to trade off penalties than to trade off bonuses. I'd rather choose between [+2,1d4] and [+0,2d5] than between [-1,1d4] and [-3,2d5], even though the choices are functionally equivalent.
Why is it more fun to gain melee and evasion by wearing rags instead of being naked? I simply do not understand this. I really try, but how is that related to any kind of fun? It actively removes choices from the game - no point in staying away from the awkward great helm or the gauntlets with melee penalty anymore, the first armour is always an upgrade then.

D&D derived games usually have no armour penalties, because evasion and armour is represented by the same abstract number "armour class" - so you can't really model a trade off with that. That these systems are so common is not due to superior design, but due to path dependency (just like qwerty-keyboards).
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Old June 11, 2014, 21:04   #484
intently
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Why is it more fun to gain melee and evasion by wearing rags instead of being naked? I simply do not understand this. I really try, but how is that related to any kind of fun? It actively removes choices from the game - no point in staying away from the awkward great helm or the gauntlets with melee penalty anymore, the first armour is always an upgrade then.
I agree, it doesn't make sense that rags would be better than being naked. If one were inclined to pursue this direction of modification, it would make sense to give an explicit evasion and to-hit bonus for naked characters.
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Old June 11, 2014, 21:10   #485
Philip
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But that's just inflation. You'd have to make every effect that query's evasion or attack stronger and you'd be almost exactly where you started, except suddenly characters have 5500 HP (I'm looking at you, void-diving TOME). There might be a slight personal effect, but it's just not worth rebalncing around.
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Old June 11, 2014, 21:23   #486
wobbly
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I'm with taptap & Infinitum on this one. I find the penalty to evasion representing the weight of armour aesthetically pleasing & the fact that Sil doesn't go the whole cool! MEGA BONUS STUFF path one of it's major attractions.

I played TOME 4 a bit & while it's a great fun game, having thousands of hp and doing hundreds of damage points wore thin on me. The day Sil starts having SUPER HIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ok, ok it does have criticals!!!) & FEEL GOOD BONUS!!!!. YOU ARE A SUPERHERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MEGA MOVE!!! WOW!!! kind of stuff is the day it loses it's charm for me.

Ok, I'll stop being silly now & just say, I prefer it the way it is now. I know you don't really mean it the way I've put it above, just exaggerating for emphasis.
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Old June 11, 2014, 21:45   #487
intently
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Ok, I'll stop being silly now & just say, I prefer it the way it is now. I know you don't really mean it the way I've put it above, just exaggerating for emphasis.
I shouldn't have tried to recommend a "fix", but should instead have left my "least liked feature" to stand on its own
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Old June 11, 2014, 21:51   #488
locus
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I think it would be a good idea for robes to provide +1 Evasion to make them equivalent with cloaks. You would not need to give rags +1 Evasion: in this manner, you could make robes actually better than rags, which they currently are not and it's sort of silly.
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Old June 12, 2014, 01:24   #489
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For what it's worth, using a robe or cloak to conceal your exact body position is a legitimate and historical technique in duels, and would be a good justification to give robes +1 evasion.
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Old June 12, 2014, 02:32   #490
wobbly
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I shouldn't have tried to recommend a "fix", but should instead have left my "least liked feature" to stand on its own
Nah, that would of been a shame. Maybe just ignore my comment, I think I was a little sleep deprived when I wrote that.

+1 on robes is kind of interesting, I don't think I've ever used them. Would make robes of permanence a little more enticing.
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