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Old August 9, 2009, 10:00   #1
Sergio
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Two things I think are bugs in 3.1.2...

But since I know I'm not alone in this world, I believe it's better to ask Both appeared since about 1621, but it could be that I only noticed then. I'm currently on 1624 (Windows).

1. Whenever I drop something at home I receive corrupted messages like "You drop #$@ (d)." or "You drop (k).". If this is intended, please ignore - In case you wonder about it, I do delete the raw files whenever I switch versions, and this only happens at home, works just fine at stores or when I drop stuff on the ground

2. I spend 30 minutes in a level (let's say, 65). I recall back to town so I can empty my inventory, grab new prayer books, check the black market, pursue drunk people, you know. When I recall back, if I didn't spend enough time in town, I always get the "Looks like any other level." message. However, if I fool around for a bit, I get a proper feeling when I recall back. Should this be considered expected behaviour, even for the town?

Thanks!

Last edited by Sergio; August 10, 2009 at 17:06.
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Old August 9, 2009, 20:24   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
2. I spend 30 minutes in a level (let's say, 65). I recall back to town so I can empty my inventory, grab new prayer books, check the black market, pursue drunk people, you know. When I recall back, if I didn't spend enough time in town, I always get the "Looks like any other level." message. However, if I fool around for a bit, I get a proper feeling when I recall back. Should this be considered expected behaviour, even for the town?
This has been happening since at least V2.7.9.

Regardless of whether it is intended, this should be expected until it is intentionally changed.
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Old August 10, 2009, 16:23   #3
Bill Peterson
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And it's been bugging me since 2.7.9 as well. Imagine how annoying it is for a character with +30 speed. I'm about to propose a fix for it. It's just a one liner but I haven't had a chance to test my patch.
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Old August 10, 2009, 18:21   #4
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Originally Posted by Bill Peterson View Post
And it's been bugging me since 2.7.9 as well. Imagine how annoying it is for a character with +30 speed. I'm about to propose a fix for it. It's just a one liner but I haven't had a chance to test my patch.
Was it implemented to avoid level feeling scumming using WoR + scrolls? Maybe the town should just take less turns to reset that flag instead of wiping it out completely going town-> dungeon
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Old August 10, 2009, 20:05   #5
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Was it implemented to avoid level feeling scumming using WoR + scrolls? Maybe the town should just take less turns to reset that flag instead of wiping it out completely going town-> dungeon
I think this just ends up being an edge case of a more general strategy to penalize stair scumming. As I understand the code, the idea is:

1. Level feelings are useful
2. You shouldn't be able to go up and down over and over again until getting a "special" or "superb" level.
3. Thus, if you leave a level before X turns pass, you don't get a new level feeling.

Since the town is a level, leaving via WoR is the same as leaving a level via the stairs. So, if you stay in town more than X turns, you get another feeling, and otherwise you don't.
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Old August 10, 2009, 21:00   #6
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I think the idea of making you wait X turns on a level before you can generate a feeling the next time you switch floors is that it introduces a little danger to stairscumming for exciting floors - in those X terms a monster might wake up and jump you. For any character who can afford to buy a bunch of WoR, there's absolutely no danger in waiting in town for X turns, or any number of turns, so there's no real reason to make them do so.
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Old August 10, 2009, 21:38   #7
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I think the idea of making you wait X turns on a level before you can generate a feeling the next time you switch floors is that it introduces a little danger to stairscumming for exciting floors - in those X terms a monster might wake up and jump you. For any character who can afford to buy a bunch of WoR, there's absolutely no danger in waiting in town for X turns, or any number of turns, so there's no real reason to make them do so.
If the purpose is to avoid stairscumming, then the number of turns ought to be irrelevant. Simply keep track of the staircase used to enter the level. If you leave by a different method, give the level feeling. Presumably you should prompt the player before using the staircase that will disable the level feeling.

Of course, my preferred solution would be to remove level feelings entirely. That's a surefire method of stamping out the bugs!
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Old August 10, 2009, 23:26   #8
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There's no bug, the code is easy to understand and does exactly as expected. The problem is that it's an annoyance to have to force a character with speed items to wait around in the town for an excessive number of turns in order to get a level feeling when descending. Characters at normal speed use up enough turns just shopping, but at +20 you almost have to do an R1000 or more. I don't have a problem with players not knowing how long they have to explore a dungeon level before getting a feeling on the next - but the town should be different.

You can't really get rid of level feelings altogether as long as the game allows you to turn off preserve artifacts. That would force people playing that option to fully explore and ID each and every level. And power divers would have a much harder time playing their game if they had no clue which levels were more dangerous or had more valuables.

NPP and, I believe, Z would wait some random number of turns after you entered each level before giving a feeling. This works fairly well except with small levels, where I would occasionally explore the entire level without getting a feeling.
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Old August 11, 2009, 02:04   #9
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There's no bug, the code is easy to understand and does exactly as expected.
Isn't that true of most bugs? Say, more than half?
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Old August 11, 2009, 02:21   #10
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My position on this is that level feelings should either exist and be useful, or not exist (right now they are mostly useless IMO).

I think that stair scumming is its own punishment, and that there is no need to try to dissuade people from doing it by making level feelings more useless.
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