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Old March 28, 2019, 22:34   #1
Sky
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why do i keep finding Slings of Buckland ?

Hey @Nick

Why is it that i keep finding slings of buckland on DL1~10 ??

This is the third low-stat buckland i find this week, they have all been circa (+5,+5) but as such they are still enchantable, they still have the +DEX bonus, and well, the +2 s.power +2 s.speed are still there.

Is it that perhaps the way these things generate allows them to be picked when a low DL generates an exceptional item? Because while i've gotten WoG off of Maggot and i found Kelek on DL13, and an epic Trident Of Wrath drop off of Boldor, i tend to see Bucklands waaaay more often than i think i should.
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Old March 28, 2019, 23:12   #2
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Old March 28, 2019, 23:38   #3
Nick
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Short answer is you've been lucky

Longer answer: Slings are early items, and the way egos get generated is an already chosen item needs to pass a roll to see if it gets enchanted, and then another to see if it gets upgraded to an ego. So early on you're very unlikely to see an ego long bow, because you probably won't see any long bows, but an ego sling. Still, to get your sling of Buckland you're going to need to pass those two rolls, and then also pick Buckland rather than Power or Accuracy as the ego - which is unlikely because they officially start at DL20. So yes, you've been very lucky.
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Old March 29, 2019, 00:14   #4
Sky
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so, in order for an item to be a sling of buckland, it *has* to generate as a "sling" first, before it determines what kind of sling. So there is no chance of a sword becoming a sling.
Wouldn't it be easier to generate a power level instead?
Say, "i've generated a item of power X; let's find out what kind of item it is now", instead of "i've generated a sword; let's see how powerful it is".
Maybe item base could cost power out of that value, so a early sling would still be better than a early sword, regardless of the power.
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Old March 29, 2019, 00:32   #5
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@sky--
How does that help? Whichever you pick first, you stil have to go through item generation, and probabilities are commutative.
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Old March 29, 2019, 02:25   #6
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Now I know where all my slings of bucklands are being generated (because they sure as heck aren't being generated in any games I've been playing). Thanks a lot, Sky. Thanks a real bunch. Hogging all the slings of buckland.

&&&

The more I expose myself to RNG the more tickled and amused I am by it. Spotify is meant to randomize my playlist. But it will often play certain songs more than others; or it will play a certain genre or mood for a few days straight (my playlist has about 6 different genres or moods). Or it will avoid a certain song for a reaallly long time. Often I wish the randomization was "more random".

Angband is no different. There was a period about a year ago where it was generating lots of powerful artifacts; rings and the like; lately it's still generating a good number of artifacts, but hasn't generated a *GREAT* item in a really long time and there doesn't seem to be a preponderance of rings anymore. It actually feels like the RNG has been tweaked; but it's just the wonkiness of randomness. One interesting thing about this is the meta-history that it creates for me-it's like there are now eras in my Angband gaming history: the era of the powerful rings (I used to get tons of powerful rings); I remember there were a few games in a short period of time that generated super powerful launchers (X6 with +28 to +30 dam and an X5 with extra shots). I used to never get arkenstones (for the first couple years playing randarts I got maybe two). So I thought arkenstones were really rare in randarts. But in the last year I've probably gotten 7+ in a much smaller sample size of games. So now I think of my current era of play as being the arkenstone era. I used to never get cursed items (for about two years I don't think I got a single randart that was cursed). So I had it in my head that randarts don't generate cursed items. But for the last year or so cursed items have been pretty consistent and reliable (maybe one out of every three or five games?)

It's actually the brilliance of RNG, especially when it's operating with such a large sample size (my Spotify playlist reached around 300 when I started noticing wonky patterns--it's now at over 500). It's these patterns that start showing up that make it so interesting; it almost feels like the RNG has "eras" or phases that it goes through; the drought phase, when you have several consecutive games, or maybe even weeks, of just super lousy or few artifacts -- to the times of the insane riches --when you think the RNG is broken and ridiculous because it's generating so many powerful items at super low depths. Now I look back on those super-artifact days as the golden era of my Angband randart days.

Oh yeah, and I used to be so jealous of people talking about PDSM and armors of speed all the time. For years I never saw either of these and I read other people say they don't see them either. Then I finally found my first PDSM, then not much later I found BT (I put it in acronym because it's such a rare item I figure I shouldn't spoil it for others) and soon after I found speed armor; and it seems like ever since I found my first PDSM I've been finding them regularly ever since (regularly being like one out of 7? games that I reach the deep dungeon). Same goes for speed armors. That really makes it feel like there are two distinct eras in my Angband games; when I didn't find the super rare ego armors and when I did. (I started playing in the last quarter of 2013 and admittedly didn't reach the deep dungeon for probably a whole year). And currently I'm in the Arkenstone and the slightly underpowered to moderately powered artifact phase.

RNG: gotta love it and embrace the patterns that it "seems" to "erroneously" produce.
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Old March 29, 2019, 14:25   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Wouldn't it be easier to...
It's almost always easier to keep using the working thing that you already have.

It's less frequent that this is the better choice, but nearly always the easier.
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Old March 29, 2019, 14:51   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
so, in order for an item to be a sling of buckland, it *has* to generate as a "sling" first, before it determines what kind of sling. So there is no chance of a sword becoming a sling.
Wouldn't it be easier to generate a power level instead?
Say, "i've generated a item of power X; let's find out what kind of item it is now", instead of "i've generated a sword; let's see how powerful it is".
Maybe item base could cost power out of that value, so a early sling would still be better than a early sword, regardless of the power.
No. Because "power levels" are single-dimensional representations of objects with many attributes, which means you then have to write an algorithm to that, given a power level, creates an object. Which, as randart balance has shown over the years, is difficult to get right.

The current generation system is quite easy to tweak - if you wanted to reduce the number of Slings of Buckland being generated early you could add other egos to crowd them out, or you could reduce the chance of having an ego, or you could move Buckland slings lower. Running it by the probabilities is actually the most straightforward and most understandable way you can do it. Power levels add a level abstraction that makes it much harder to think about what goes on.
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Old March 29, 2019, 19:07   #9
Ingwe Ingweron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Why is it that i keep finding slings of buckland on DL1~10 ??
As I've quoted a few times before, go hear to read it again, from one of my favorite plays (as you probably already guessed from my signature). http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?p=127625
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