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Old May 28, 2007, 07:36   #41
Seventh Holy Scripture
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I feel like voicing an opinion, although I don't know if you're interested in making drastic gameplay changes just after reaching 1.0 (I was a bit late with this ): the schools of magic ought to be polarized a lot more. Sorcery should be for utility, holy magic should be defensive, necromancy should be offensive, with very few exceptions beyond the newbie spellbooks. Druidism could focus on status and environment changes, perhaps, or remain the 'balanced' school.

The reasoning? Well, it would obviously make the schools more unique. I recently played a sorcerer, am now playing a necromancer, and they don't feel terribly different from one another. Break Curse is handy and saves me a scroll/essence/trip back to town, I miss having Wonder, a few other spells here and there... but nothing that really sets one spell-flinger apart from another for me. The other two schools are not quite so similar, having recovery spells, but still have that 'let's throw in some of everything' feel to my recollection.

Also, barring the event that one runs out of mana, I think that well-rounded spellcasting diminishes the utility of many other skills. Why put points into ranged weaponry when one has attack magic? Why master magical devices and waste valuable inventory slots on them when one's spellbooks can do most of the same things? It would be more interesting if each school of spellcasting had significant 'gaps' that would need to be compensated for by other skills, or just done without by the ironman.

Well, that's my rant. Sangband is great, but due to the nature of oaths and spellcasting, it sometimes feels more to me like flexible-classes Angband then skill Angband. Perhaps I should go do my own variant: Opinion Sangband.
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Old May 28, 2007, 19:49   #42
FV20X6
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Just to add my voice to the thread: I feel exactly the opposite way. Sangband is the only variant I can think of where a single school system allows you attack magic, defensive uses (which do vary quite a bit between styles), and utility with differing feels. It's quite different to go from fleeing angels in the depths with a necromancer and forging ever increasingly amazing armor to saving those same essences to power a dragon breath, or using them to churn out specialized ammunition for use with a buffed up priest.

I've never been able to play classes without some sort of use-abilities or spell-likes, but I've stuck with Sangband since I found it because of the sheer variety and flavor of the options, even at lower levels. Though I usually die before 3000 to inattentiveness, I far prefer the ability to mix and match any variety of skills to a more strict pigeonholing of magics. I still take ranged weapons, because I prefer holding my spells until I see what comes running from the noise, and it gives you a lot of breathing room compared to a failed spell and a teleport or worse yet being damaged. Magical Devices is probably the strongest skill in the game right from the beginning now that wands of spark are available, and even with oathed casters there's been times I've relied on that instead of the spellset. (Druids especially, since they get woeful offensive ability until skill level 40)


The funny thing is that I'd actually like Flexible Class Angband, because there's times I wish for a Smith's Oath with bonuses to forging but penalties to wielding non-self-made-items, a Wandslinger's oath that made you worse in heavy armor but more agile and possibly conserved charges, etc. I can do those things with the current system and some creativity, certainly, but I am addicted to shiny things like talents and oath-based bonuses.

Maybe it's time for yet another variant... I think it's only a credit to the game that people like different aspects and would consider it a base for their own personal vision, but I think I'll wait to start on mine until I actually beat the game. Only 4200' to go with my newest sorceror... sigh.
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Old May 29, 2007, 08:34   #43
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Now that I started to play with the auto-haggle option off I've noticed something I think is a bug.
When you haggle and get close to each others offers, say 197 and 210, when you type 200 and the shopkeeper agrees, he says 197, not 200. He also pays you only 197. I'd think that if I said 200 and the shopkeeper agrees, he agrees to the 200, not his last offer.

Or maybe I'm missing something here?
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Old May 29, 2007, 23:13   #44
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I have an odd glitch happening. A couple of times, when I was spending a bit of time looking at one of the help files, the game just up and disappeared on me. No save, no warning, just went and blinked out of existence. It'd be like what happens when you use the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-delete) to shut it down, except I tried that (to try and get back a good hat I couldn't sell for more than 8 AU) and the game must have recognized the shutdown (because when I came back I found my stuff still owned by the shopkeeper, and I hadn't saved nor seen an autosave before going into any shops). This is really kind of annoying because apart from the autosaves (which if this continues I'll probably make happen more often) I don't save that much, and it sucks to lose progress. The game is either set on some kind of timer or the glitch is linked to the help files; those are the only two things I can think are linked to this. If you need more info, just ask (I'm not terribly sure what would help; my comp seems plenty capable of playing other roguelikes without issues).
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Old May 30, 2007, 05:55   #45
CJNyfalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDR View Post
I have an odd glitch happening. A couple of times, when I was spending a bit of time looking at one of the help files, the game just up and disappeared on me. No save, no warning, just went and blinked out of existence. It'd be like what happens when you use the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-delete) to shut it down, except I tried that (to try and get back a good hat I couldn't sell for more than 8 AU) and the game must have recognized the shutdown (because when I came back I found my stuff still owned by the shopkeeper, and I hadn't saved nor seen an autosave before going into any shops). This is really kind of annoying because apart from the autosaves (which if this continues I'll probably make happen more often) I don't save that much, and it sucks to lose progress. The game is either set on some kind of timer or the glitch is linked to the help files; those are the only two things I can think are linked to this. If you need more info, just ask (I'm not terribly sure what would help; my comp seems plenty capable of playing other roguelikes without issues).
It might be helpful if you told us your OS version. Vista? XP? 98? And which port are you using main-win or main-sdl? Do you have the same problem with both?
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Old May 30, 2007, 12:04   #46
jtrowell
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Exclamation [bug] dual wielding to digging tool

I found a bug (sangband windows version 1.0.0) :

- dark elf, dual wielding a short sword and a main gauche

=> I equip a digging tool using 'w', I get a warning that it will unequip both weapons, and then when the tool is equipped, the off-hand weapon (main gauche) is lost : I don't have it anymore in my equipment panel, and it is not found in the inventory.

Tried later with a broken sword in left hand, same bug

When I tried with a shield instead of dual wielding, the shield was still equipped, but moved "in the back".



Now for a comment on the game : I tried it only yesterday, but love it

The skill system is better than most level-based systems, I love that you can start a character and only later chose what classe he will really be (by chosing your magic realm and taking your oath), and the game seems easier that Crawl (was not so hard to do ) while still having enought complexity to give a challenge.

I think that I will try a Dwarven Holy warrior/Priest next, with most points going to magical infusion and forge skills.
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Old May 30, 2007, 17:17   #47
Leon Marrick
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Quick note:

RL affairs will keep me away for several days to a week. Will respond to points when I can.
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Old May 31, 2007, 01:29   #48
BDR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJNyfalt View Post
It might be helpful if you told us your OS version. Vista? XP? 98? And which port are you using main-win or main-sdl? Do you have the same problem with both?
XP. The name of the file I downloaded says win on the end, so I'd guess it's main-win.

This happened to me a few more times but I can't seem to come up with a repeatable process. So far the only constant seems to be the help menu.
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Old May 31, 2007, 09:21   #49
BDR
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Normally, I'd just edit my post (the dislike for double-posting exists on most forums, so it's reasonable to assume it's here too), but I've found a new bug (which worked out quite handsomely in my favor, but which you'll probably find rather embarrassing):

Code:

                                                                                                
BDR          ##################################################################                 
Rock-whipper #................................................................#                 
             #................................................................#                 
EXP       21 #.......................######...................................#                 
AU        84 #......########+........######........#######....#########.......#                 
K}   ~  )]   #......#########........######........#######....#########.......#                 
STR:      10 #......########1........######........2######....#########.......#                 
INT:      15 #......#########........#5####........#######....#########.......#                 
WIS:      14 #.......................{.............#######....########8.......#                 
DEX:   18/20 #................................................................#                 
CON:      14 #................................................................#                 
CHR:      16 #........................t.......................................#                 
             #..........>.....................................................#                 
Cur AC     6 #.........####3........######....................................#                 
HP    0/  12 #.........#####........######....t..########........#######......#                 
             #.........#####........#####4.....@.6#######........#######......#                 
[**********] #.........#####........######.......########........#######......#                 
(NW 1)       #.........#####........######.......########........7######......#                 
[Mean-looki] #................................................................#                 
[Innkeeper ] #................................................................#                 
             #................................................................#                 
             ##################################################################                 
noise                                                                                           
                                                                                                
Luck                                                                                            
  0 days  6h                                                                                    
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
(no quest)                                                                                      
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                           Town 
Of course, my natural reaction was to quickly drink a pot of cure light wounds (as I've no idea whether I can reproduce this or not, and in any case didn't really care to die in such a fashion), which the game was gracious enough to allow me to do and which enabled me to off those townsmen.

Also, in searching for my screenshot (which was not, say, in an obvious folder named 'screenshots' or such) I found the store file which spoils how the generic shopkeeps feel about bargaining (which I find most fascinating, even though I'll not necessarily need it). I also found some of the lists for artifacts (also the cursed artifacts), though now that I think about it, you probably can't really use that if artifacts only id by name once you wear it/read a scroll of *Identify*.

EDIT: Ah, yes.. now I remember something else. Is there any possible way there could be an auto-explore option? The maps actually seem even bigger than Crawl's maps, and there is an option for such there... of course, Crawl has been around for a coon's age, so it probably wouldn't happen for a while, but can I at least get some hope? :/ Clearing the dungeons of foes and swag is kind of addicting...

Last edited by BDR; May 31, 2007 at 09:29.
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Old May 31, 2007, 11:25   #50
Fuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDR View Post
Of course, my natural reaction was to quickly drink a pot of cure light wounds (as I've no idea whether I can reproduce this or not, and in any case didn't really care to die in such a fashion), which the game was gracious enough to allow me to do and which enabled me to off those townsmen.
You mean the 0 HP?
It's intended to be that way. Only below zero values kill you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDR View Post
Also, in searching for my screenshot (which was not, say, in an obvious folder named 'screenshots' or such)
Code:
Screenshot saved in the "lib/user" directory as "dump-vB.txt".
I guess you're the lazy "don't read all that stuff" type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDR View Post
Is there any possible way there could be an auto-explore option? The maps actually seem even bigger than Crawl's maps, and there is an option for such there... of course, Crawl has been around for a coon's age, so it probably wouldn't happen for a while, but can I at least get some hope? :/ Clearing the dungeons of foes and swag is kind of addicting...
In Crawl, the dungeon is static. So it's a little bothersome to go back and forth through the same place many times. In Sangband the dungeon is random, so it'd be pointless to have a auto-explore option because you'd end up moving five spaces and stoping in front of some monster, or worse, getting killed by an offscreen breath.


***

I've noticed that after making an screenshot (forum one) the visual prefs get reset. It's fine with me to make them default for the screenshot, but could the game restore my options after that? No. The load prefs doesn't help.
EDIT: Nevermind. Loading the [charactername].prf file fixed it.
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