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Old July 21, 2010, 20:17   #1
fizzix
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should uniques be trample-able?

Twice I've had uniques get trampled by their summonses. Once lorgon and once ulfast (or ulwarth, I can't remember which one summons). Ironically, in both cases the trampler was a berserker.

I personally don't feel that uniques should ever be trampled. Especially as they're often more dangerous than a monster at a much higher level.
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Old July 21, 2010, 20:40   #2
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Twice I've had uniques get trampled by their summonses. Once lorgon and once ulfast (or ulwarth, I can't remember which one summons). Ironically, in both cases the trampler was a berserker.

I personally don't feel that uniques should ever be trampled. Especially as they're often more dangerous than a monster at a much higher level.
I think that is a bug. Uniques at least didn't used to be vulnerable to KILL_BODY -effect. IE. no killing Balrog of Moria by Horned Reaper even that Horned Reaper is deeper than Balrog of Moria.
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Old July 21, 2010, 20:50   #3
fyonn
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oh I don't know. if you'd avoided grip all these turns and then he appears in front of that horned reaper, would you really expect the poor little doggie, even as a unique, to hold the reaper back?
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Old July 21, 2010, 21:10   #4
Derakon
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You could replace trample with push-past if the target is a unique monster.
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Old July 21, 2010, 21:47   #5
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Twice I've had uniques get trampled by their summonses. Once lorgon and once ulfast (or ulwarth, I can't remember which one summons). Ironically, in both cases the trampler was a berserker.

I personally don't feel that uniques should ever be trampled. Especially as they're often more dangerous than a monster at a much higher level.
I don't have any problem with monsters trampling uniques. I wouldn't mind if that meant they were marked as killed. OTOH, I don't think a summoner should be able to summon a monster natively deeper than itself.
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Old July 21, 2010, 21:50   #6
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OTOH, I don't think a summoner should be able to summon a monster natively deeper than itself.
I've made that suggestion before and was roundly shouted down...

or maybe it was just ignored. Hard to remember between the two.
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Old July 21, 2010, 22:03   #7
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I agree a monster's summoning should be depth-limited...maybe allow a *little* out of depth, but not often. And do the converse, as noted in one of the recent-winner threads: put some kind of cap on how weak a summoned monster can be, so M doesn't give you a nice 2-3 free rounds because he summons the orc uniques, complete with papier-mache escorts....or is it that they only act like they're papier-mache?
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Old July 21, 2010, 22:22   #8
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Or could you just make it that a monster can only trample another monster that is both lower level and has less (maximum) hitpoints. Since most uniques have a lot more HP than other monsters at their depth this would normally prevent them being trampled, but not always, eg Grip and the horned reaper as above.
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Old July 21, 2010, 22:32   #9
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Tiburon Silverflame View Post
I agree a monster's summoning should be depth-limited...maybe allow a *little* out of depth, but not often. And do the converse, as noted in one of the recent-winner threads: put some kind of cap on how weak a summoned monster can be, so M doesn't give you a nice 2-3 free rounds because he summons the orc uniques, complete with papier-mache escorts....or is it that they only act like they're papier-mache?
I don't see any real reason to limit summoning shallower monsters than caster, even if it means that Morgoth summons Grip which in turn tries to bite Horned Reaper ankle when it tries to roll over it. That's just another tactic that is just quite funny. You kind of set trap for him:

"Morgoth summons special opponents"...hmmm damn, just my luck, I got Lagduf again. What is with this guy? Does it run from all adventurers? And what's that little puppy over there? I asked for Carcharoth, not some hobbit pet. Oh well, lets continue to kill that adventurer... "Morgoth casts manastorm".

OTOH summoning monsters that are way deeper than summoner doesn't feel right.
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Old July 21, 2010, 23:02   #10
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I don't have any problem with monsters trampling uniques. I wouldn't mind if that meant they were marked as killed. OTOH, I don't think a summoner should be able to summon a monster natively deeper than itself.
I don't think they should be marked as killed.

I think a monster should be able to summon something natively deeper. It keeps summoners dangerous longer. There are interesting moments in the midgame where a demon summons something OOD. I don't think those should go away. There should be a reasonable cap on how OOD it can be but I assume that is already true.

As far as the OT is concerned I don't know enough about how trampling works. I assume you can't trample something with higher level than you? In that case I'm not surprised that both times were a berserker with a human summoner. How many other situations are possible? Moria and horned reaper? I don't think HP solution would fix that but I otherwise like it.

If it's true that there are few cases where this is even likely, removing trample from berserker and making him push past would be almost as effective and trivial.
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