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Old October 8, 2017, 11:59   #41
Sphara
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This raises the difficulty of ironman games even more in 4.1.0

You're forced to drink stat decreasing potions in a vital part of the game. Reading deep descent and teleport level at least once.

Isn't there a possibility of having all scrolls and potions pre-identified in birth options?

I know the game development doesn't revolve around ironman challenge. And, yes, the challenge is supposed to be hard. But having it made more difficult with annoying way like this pretty much ruined it for me.
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Old October 8, 2017, 12:22   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphara View Post
Isn't there a possibility of having all scrolls and potions pre-identified in birth options?
Yes, I'm planning to do that some time.
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Old October 17, 2017, 10:47   #43
grumbleguts
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Why can you no longer buy identify scrolls in the stores.

I must say the new identify system is exciting, I bloody hate it. I am excited by how much hatred I can have for a new thing. I never new I could hate something so vehemently in so small a change. I am thinking of reverting to actual angband as is used to be before someone stuffed it up so immensely.
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Old October 17, 2017, 15:51   #44
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Originally Posted by grumbleguts View Post
Why can you no longer buy identify scrolls in the stores.

I must say the new identify system is exciting, I bloody hate it. I am excited by how much hatred I can have for a new thing. I never new I could hate something so vehemently in so small a change. I am thinking of reverting to actual angband as is used to be before someone stuffed it up so immensely.
On behalf of Nick, I'd like to thank you for your useful feedback. Volunteers love nothing more than to be told that they've "stuffed it up immensely." Especially when it includes such clear direction on exactly what would be better.

And the thanks don't only come from Nick. It's not as if there haven't been literally years of discussion on these forums about how to improve the ID mini-game. All of us who have been involved now wish we'd had your sagacious input over the course of those many discussions. Kudos!
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Old October 17, 2017, 16:21   #45
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well, looks like my original advice was good; add ID scrolls to stores (for a touched-up price), and allow ID of scrolls/potions.
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Old October 17, 2017, 18:03   #46
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If you're having trouble with ID, you probably haven't thought out the minigame very much.
Rules:
NEVER ID:
A weapon if it doesn't have some obvious characteristic. Basic slay weapons aren't with IDing, and *slay* weapons are obvious.
A cursed item unless it's one you are actually considering using. (Say a Holy Avenger Blade of Chaos
Jewelry, without at least giving it a try for a while. The only jewelry really worth IDing early is a Ring of Free Action. (And even here, there are safe ways of ID-by-use.)
Low level armor. Discovering base resists by use is *easy*
If you really care about slays and curses, ID them by selling them to a shop.

Yeah, it's a little tedious early. But not having to ID Every Single Object late in the game is a huge, huge benefit. Not to mention the loss of *ID*. UGH.
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Old October 18, 2017, 21:26   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kandrc View Post
On behalf of Nick, I'd like to thank you for your useful feedback. Volunteers love nothing more than to be told that they've "stuffed it up immensely." Especially when it includes such clear direction on exactly what would be better.

And the thanks don't only come from Nick. It's not as if there haven't been literally years of discussion on these forums about how to improve the ID mini-game. All of us who have been involved now wish we'd had your sagacious input over the course of those many discussions. Kudos!
1. That it's a volunteer's job doesn't mean you can't criticize the job someone is doing.
2. From your post, it seems you were able to very clearly infer what grumbleguts would like to have improved. Why implicitly ask a question whose answer you alredy know?
3. Years of dicussion do not have to lead to good outcomes. See the current US President for what can go wrong even when many people give their opinion.

@Grumbleguts: Simply stick with 4.0.5. It's a good version of the game. Having read the changes, I also chose not to shift to the new version.
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Old October 18, 2017, 21:42   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
1. That it's a volunteer's job doesn't mean you can't criticize the job someone is doing.
That's no excuse for being rude. You can absolutely provide criticism, so long as it's constructive. Players and devs both want the game to improve; it's not like we're on different sides here. The overarching goal is the same, but the exact path towards that goal is not clear. Experiments will be tried, and sometimes they won't work out, or will need substantial refinement before they actually make things better.

In this case, the best thing to do would be to share precisely why you find the new ID system distasteful, and what specifically it does worse than the old system. Give the devs some areas they can focus their attention on improving. If you just say "You screwed up, and I'm not going to play with you any more", then what kind of information are they supposed to gain? Certainly if a majority of players said something like that, they could infer that the change was a mistake, but usually responses are far more mixed.

Incidentally, any analogy to US politics is pretty blatant rage-bait, and I don't think it's appropriate for this thread.
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Old October 19, 2017, 01:38   #49
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Personally, I enjoy the ID mini-game as it's implemented currently. I do wish ID spells/scrolls would work on the items they no longer work on, such as mushrooms, scrolls, etc. I was a bit puzzled when it said I couldn't do that any more.

I like the rune system, too, which is related to ID.
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Old October 19, 2017, 02:20   #50
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As the volunteer in question, I'll just make a few points:
  • I'm fine with criticism. I prefer it to be constructive, but even "you've ruined the game" is information
  • I do generally try to take into account feedback from the community (as expressed through these forums) when making changes, both before and after implementation
  • For those who really don't like a new feature, there are 60-odd previous versions of Angband to choose from
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