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Old October 10, 2017, 16:24   #11
Derakon
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Rangers are the worst at melee out of all the hybrid characters, but considering that priests routinely win in melee with Morgoth, it's not out of the question for rangers to do so too. But they'd want a lot of healing and stat sustains, not to mention substantially more than 275 damage/round vs. evil. I usually consider 400 damage/round to be my minimum if I'm to consider meleeing Morgoth.

If you fight Morgoth from range, then all you have to worry about is non-elemental direct damage (manastorm and brain smash) and his summons. He can't drain your stats remotely, and the odds of him summoning something that can are pretty low.
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Old October 10, 2017, 17:32   #12
Oraticus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
A ranger can do pretty well in melee against all but the most dangerous monsters IF he uses Rune f Protection and both buffing spells (heroism and berserk strength.) But to do this, he needs a good (big dice) weapon. As others have pointed out, a +CON ring can make up for the CON on the weapon. It's certainly worth keeping your +CON stat stick as a backup. But using melee is a lot less work for your fingers than shooting absolutely everything--especially if your bow sucks.

And really, do leave the Holy Might ammo at home (and any acid brand if you find it.) That is valuable stuff, and should be reserved for the Bosses.
I do intend to store the holy might ammo… I'm not wasting it on the dross. I'll keep the wounding ammo along for nasty uniques that resist fire/cold/acid/lighting/poison, because if I'm gonna dig around in the dungeon for a bit, it'd be nice to get uniques out of the way so they don't get summoned by P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Rangers are the worst at melee out of all the hybrid characters, but considering that priests routinely win in melee with Morgoth, it's not out of the question for rangers to do so too. But they'd want a lot of healing and stat sustains, not to mention substantially more than 275 damage/round vs. evil. I usually consider 400 damage/round to be my minimum if I'm to consider meleeing Morgoth.

If you fight Morgoth from range, then all you have to worry about is non-elemental direct damage (manastorm and brain smash) and his summons. He can't drain your stats remotely, and the odds of him summoning something that can are pretty low.
Since it's my first time against the ugly P, I'm going to try and stick to ranged death. It seems to be the safest and most reliable way to murder Morgoth for my ranger. Since I have 100% save, I don't have to worry about brain smashing, right? My biggest fears from him are mana storm and bad summons, correct?
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Old October 10, 2017, 17:34   #13
Pete Mack
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What Derakon said. Sauron is a different issue. For him, melee (or point blank archery) can really cut down on risk, especially given Rune of Protection spell. With an anti-sunmoning corridor (ASC) he can only bring in at most one other monster unless you get really unlucky with a PASSWALL undead or (worse) a Black Reaver.
If your ASC is circular and has Rune of Protection all through it, Sauron is pretty much helpless against you. Yeah, he'll still hit you with some spells, and you'll need a bit of healing, but really the worst he can do to you is teleport away (or level, if you don't have a perfect saving throw or resist Nexus. A HE Ranger doesn't have to worry much about that, however.)
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Old October 10, 2017, 17:54   #14
Oraticus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
If your ASC is circular and has Rune of Protection all through it, Sauron is pretty much helpless against you.
Circular ASC, you say? Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your publications to learn more...

All I know of ASCs is the good 'ole zigzag, like this:

Code:
#################
#;#;#;#;#;#;#;#;#
;#;#;#;#;#;#;#;##
#################
What's the setup of a circular ASC (Anti-summoning Circle??)
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Old October 10, 2017, 23:17   #15
Monkey Face
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oraticus View Post
I knew I was probably overdoing it with +31 base speed, so yeah, storing the speed ring for Brian makes lots of sense. What kind of base HP/CON should I be aiming for?
You want to try and get your CON up to 18/200. That will maximize your HP for the character level. If you're willing to grind it out to CL50 you'll get your absolute maximum HP. Otherwise you'll have less.
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Old October 13, 2017, 00:06   #16
Oraticus
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I managed to find a longbow of power the night after I first posted, which made me realize just how crappy that Shortbow of Lothlorien was. Since then I’ve…
- Found a Longbow of Lothlorien
- Pushed my CON to 18/200 thanks to the switch to the Ring of Brian
- Upgraded my weapon to something that hits a bit harder.
- Gotten another stack of Slay Evil ammo

Here’s the dump:
Code:
  [Angband 4.0.5 Character Dump]

 Name   Oraticus     Age            115          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   High-Elf     Height        6'9"   STR! 18/100  +1  +0  +6 18/170
 Class  Ranger       Weight   13st 10lb   INT! 18/100  +3  +2  +3 18/180
 Title  Ranger Lord  Turns used:          WIS! 18/100  -1  -2  +5 18/120
 HP     911/911      Game        664252   DEX! 18/100  +3  +1 +14 18/***
 SP     217/353      Standard    125654   CON! 18/100  +1  -1 +10 18/200
                     Resting      29347

 Level                 46    Armor     [50,+129]    Saving Throw    100%
 Cur Exp          6453455                           Stealth       Superb
 Max Exp          6453455    Melee       3d6,+34    Disarming        92%
 Adv Exp          6900000    To-hit       68,+49    Magic Devices    108
                             Blows      7.0/turn    Perception    1 in 1
 Gold              877002                           Searching       100%
 Burden          177.9 lb    Shoot to-dam    +24    Infravision   100 ft
 Overweight       -2.0 lb    To-hit      101,+61    Speed             20
 Max Depth    4900' (L98)    Shots        3/turn

 You are the only child of a Telerin Ranger.  You have light grey eyes,
 straight black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:..*+....+.... Nexus:....+........
rElec:..++....+.+.. Nethr:...+.........
rFire:...+.*.++.... Chaos:.............
rCold:...+...++.*.. Disen:..+.....+....
rPois:...++++...... pFear:..++..+.+++..
rLite:...+........+ pBlnd:.............
rDark:...+....+.... pConf:.........+...
Sound:......+..+... pStun:.........+...
Shard:........+.... HLife:..+.......+..

Regen:..++....+.... Stea.:....+..+.....
  ESP:..........+.. Sear.:....+......+.
Invis:............+ Infra:....+.......+
FrAct:.++.......+.. Tunn.:.............
Feath:.+.........+. Speed:....+.+++.++.
S.Dig:...+......... Blows:+............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.+...........
Aggrv:............. Light:..+..+.......


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Zweihander of Extra Attacks (3d6) (+17,+19) <+2>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4800 feet (level 96)
     
     +2 attack speed.
     
     Combat info:
     7.0 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 342.3.
     
b) a Long Bow of Lothlórien (x5) (+29,+24) <+4, +2>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4900 feet (level 98)
     
     +4 dexterity.
     +2 shooting power.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Feather Falling.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
c) the Ring of Brian <+4, +1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4100 feet (level 82)
     
     +4 constitution.
     Provides immunity to acid.
     Provides resistance to lightning, disenchantment.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  Sustains your life
     force.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
     When activated, it cures confusion.
     Takes 99 to 108 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 92.1%
     
d) the Ring of Fire 'Tirima' (+7,+2) <+3>
     Dropped by Harowen the Black Hand at 3200 feet (level 64)
     
     +3 strength.
     +3 intelligence.
     +3 wisdom.
     +3 dexterity.
     +3 constitution.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, frost, poison gas,
     light, dark, nether.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     Slows your metabolism.  Speeds regeneration.  
     
     When activated, it restores your dexterity.
     Takes 219 to 243 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 92.1%
     
e) an Amulet of Trickery <+5, +2, +7, +6, +3>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4800 feet (level 96)
     
     +5 dexterity.
     +2 stealth.
     +7 searching skill.
     +6 infravision.
     +3 speed.
     Provides resistance to poison gas, nexus.
     Sustains dexterity.
     
f) the Arkenstone of Issear <+3>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4350 feet (level 87)
     
     Provides immunity to fire.
     Provides resistance to poison gas.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Radius 3 light.
     
     When activated, it maps the entire level and detects nearby
     objects, traps, doors, and stairs.
     Takes 153 to 300 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 94.5%
     
g) the Gold Dragon Scale Mail of Tarfin (-2) [28,+26] <+1>
     Dropped by Ji Indur Dawndeath at 3300 feet (level 66)
     
     +1 speed.
     Provides resistance to poison gas, sound.
     Provides protection from fear.
     
     When aimed, it fires a ball of sound with radius 2, dealing 150
     damage at the centre, which your device skill increases by 68 per
     cent.
     Takes 150 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 95.5%
     
h) the Elven Cloak 'Aelevas' [6,+16] <+3>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4000 feet (level 80)
     
     +3 strength.
     +3 constitution.
     +3 stealth.
     +3 speed.
     Provides resistance to fire, frost.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
i) the Large Metal Shield 'Lathel' [12,+17] <+1>
     Dropped by a Sorcerer at 3750 feet (level 75)
     
     +1 speed.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, frost, dark, shards,
     disenchantment.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Sustains dexterity.
     Speeds regeneration.  
     
     When activated, it attempts to magically enhance a weapon's to-hit
     bonus.  Also gives a chance to break a curse.
     Takes 369 to 495 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 96.8%
     
j) an Iron Crown of Serenity [0,+14]
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 3800 feet (level 76)
     
     Provides resistance to sound.
     Provides protection from fear, confusion, stunning.
     
k) the Set of Gauntlets of Arast [3,+20] <+2>
     Taken from a chest found at 4650 feet (level 93)
     
     +2 wisdom.
     +2 dexterity.
     +2 speed.
     Provides immunity to frost.
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  Sustains your life force.  Grants telepathy. 
     
     
l) the Pair of Leather Sandals of Habil [1,+21] <+10>
     Dropped by a Black pudding at 2500 feet (level 50)
     
     +10 searching skill.
     +10 speed.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Feather Falling.  
     
     When activated, it grants temporary resistance to fire and cold,
     cures 200HP, but also makes you hallucinate wildly.
     Takes 171 to 189 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 96.4%
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) a Book of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1}
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3}
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4}
d) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices] {@m5}
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Mordenkainen's Escapes] {@m6}
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
f) a Book of Magic Spells [Tenser's Transformations] {@m7}
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
g) a Book of Magic Spells [Kelek's Grimoire of Power]
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
h) 37 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
i) 5 Potions of Healing
j) 2 Scrolls of Mass Banishment
k) the Cloak 'Eolivras' [1,+18] <+6, +1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4900 feet (level 98)
     
     +6 constitution.
     +6 stealth.
     +6 searching skill.
     Provides resistance to poison gas, disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
     When activated, it heals 35% of max HP (minimum 300HP), cut
     damage, and cures stunning, poisoning, blindness, and confusion.
     Takes 294 to 360 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 93.4%
     
l) 36 Mithril Arrows of Frost (3d4) (+7,+10)
     Branded with cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1045.8 vs. creatures not resistant to cold,
     and 653.7 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
m) 26 Mithril Arrows of Slay Undead (3d4) (+12,+11)
     Slays undead.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1071 vs. undead, and 669.3 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
n) 22 Mithril Arrows of Frost (3d4) (+13,+14)
     Branded with cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1146.6 vs. creatures not resistant to cold,
     and 716.7 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
o) 8 Mithril Arrows of Wounding (3d4) (+27,+25)
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 898.2.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
p) 29 Mithril Arrows of Slay Evil (3d4) (+11,+18)
     Slays evil creatures.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1091.4 vs. evil creatures, and 779.7 vs.
     others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     




  [Character Quiver]

0) 23 Seeker Arrows of Wounding (4d4) (+18,+18)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 819.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
1) 21 Seeker Arrows of Flame (4d4) (+7,+9)
     Branded with fire.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1083.6 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     and 677.1 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
2) 10 Seeker Arrows of Flame (4d4) (+9,+7)
     Branded with fire.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1033.2 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     and 645.6 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
3) 30 Seeker Arrows of Wounding (4d4) (+20,+19)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 842.7.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
4) 13 Seeker Arrows of Venom (4d4) (+10,+8)
     Branded with poison.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1058.4 vs. creatures not resistant to
     poison, and 661.5 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
5) 28 Seeker Arrows of Venom (4d4) (+10,+10)
     Branded with poison.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1108.8 vs. creatures not resistant to
     poison, and 693 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
6) 35 Seeker Arrows of Wounding (4d4) (+19,+24)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 913.5.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
7) 11 Seeker Arrows of Frost (4d4) (+10,+11)
     Branded with cold.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1134 vs. creatures not resistant to cold,
     and 708.6 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
8) 36 Seeker Arrows of Flame (4d4) (+10,+11)
     Branded with fire.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1134 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     and 708.6 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
9) 11 Seeker Arrows of Frost (4d4) (+16,+13)
     Branded with cold.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1184.4 vs. creatures not resistant to cold,
     and 740.1 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) a Book of Magic Spells [Tenser's Transformations]
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
b) a Mushroom of Vigor
c) 30 Potions of Healing
d) 13 Potions of *Healing*
     It can be thrown at creatures with damaging effect.
     
e) 4 Potions of Life
     It can be thrown at creatures with damaging effect.
     
f) 7 Scrolls of Banishment
g) 4 Scrolls of Mass Banishment
h) 2 Staves of *Destruction* (6 charges)
i) 2 Staves of the Magi (7 charges)
j) a Ring of Speed <+11>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 3750 feet (level 75)
     
     +11 speed.
     
k) the Serpent Ring of Annath [+6] <+2, +1>
     Dropped by Itangast the Fire Drake at 3150 feet (level 63)
     
     +2 constitution.
     Provides resistance to fire, light.
     Provides protection from confusion, stunning.
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     Slows your metabolism.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
l) the Pendant of Nendi <+4, +1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 3800 feet (level 76)
     
     +4 wisdom.
     +4 infravision.
     Provides resistance to disenchantment.
     Prevents paralysis.  Grants telepathy.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
m) a Lantern of True Sight (11493 turns) <+2>
     Dropped by an Ancient white dragon at 2050 feet (level 41)
     
     Provides protection from blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     Radius 2 light.
     
n) the Fur Cloak of Medhor [3,+12] <+4, +1>
     Dropped by a Dracolich at 4650 feet (level 93)
     
     +4 wisdom.
     +4 constitution.
     Provides resistance to light.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Sustains wisdom.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
o) the Leather Shield of Dimoros (+1,+1) [8,+21] <+3>
     Dropped by Shagrat, the Orc Captain at 900 feet (level 18)
     
     +3 strength.
     +3 intelligence.
     +3 wisdom.
     +3 dexterity.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, frost, chaos.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Speeds regeneration.  
     
p) the Leather Shield of Hanenond [8,+17] <+3>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 2500 feet (level 50)
     
     +3 strength.
     +3 wisdom.
     +3 constitution.
     Provides immunity to acid.
     Provides resistance to lightning, fire, frost, light.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     
q) the Iron Helm of Agduin [7,+11] <+2>
     Dropped by Rogrog the Black Troll at 3750 feet (level 75)
     
     +2 speed.
     Provides resistance to acid, frost.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  Grants telepathy. 
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
r) the Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Ungornul [7,+21] <+9>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4800 feet (level 96)
     
     +9 speed.
     Provides resistance to disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
s) the Spear 'Suldo' (3d6) (+20,+16) [+12] <+4>
     Dropped by Qlzqqlzuup, the Emperor Quylthulg at 4650 feet (level
     93)
     
     +4 tunneling.
     Slays giants, undead, demons (powerfully), trolls, evil creatures,
     animals, dragons (powerfully).
     Branded with weak fire.
     Provides immunity to acid, fire.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Sustains intelligence.
     Blessed by the gods.  Feather Falling.  Grants the ability to see
     invisible things.  
     
     Combat info:
     5.0 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 275.5 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     332 vs. giants, 332 vs. undead, 445.5 vs. demons, 332 vs. trolls,
     275.5 vs. evil creatures, 275.5 vs. animals, 445.5 vs. dragons,
     and 218.5 vs. others.
     
t) 34 Seeker Arrows of Holy Might (4d4) (+25,+20)
     Slays undead, demons, evil creatures.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 160 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 1373.7 vs. undead, 1373.7 vs. demons, 1202.1
     vs. evil creatures, and 858.6 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Face View Post
You want to try and get your CON up to 18/200. That will maximize your HP for the character level. If you're willing to grind it out to CL50 you'll get your absolute maximum HP. Otherwise you'll have less.
I’m wondering about my CON, though… 18/220 is the max, right? Is there any benefit in that last 2 points of CON? I’ve recently found a cloak that would give me +6 CON, but I can’t swap it out because I’d drop below +20 speed.

How many consumables are recommended for the end game, and how many slay evil/holy might arrows should I bank on for Sauron and Morgoth?

Any other suggestions before this encounter? After this run, I’ll probably switch over to the new version of Angband (tried it a bit… man it feels different).
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Old October 13, 2017, 00:26   #17
Pete Mack
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You have that nice +6 CON cloak from inventory. I suspect that if you use it, you can swap in a big old ring of speed. Your instinct is correct: if you are using archery, better speed (up to about 28 native) matters more than a couple points of accuracy (and it's more important than high resists.)
Your biggest weakness, such as it is, is lack of slay evil ammo. But that bow is so over-the-top that ordinary enchanted ammo is more than enough--and ammo of Wounding does more damage than any warrior in combat.
Bottom line: you are good to go, with one exception: WHERE ARE YOUR POTIONS OF RESTORE MANA??? Staves of restore Mana are OK, but if you use them, you cannot let the big boys get in any melee at all.
Final note: remember to carry ?PD as well as ?Chant to the final battle, and use both buffing spells in Tenser's. Full buffing makes a noticeable difference in a drawn out fight vs. Morgoth.
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Old October 13, 2017, 01:16   #18
Monkey Face
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There is no difference between 18/200 and 18/220 CON.
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Old October 13, 2017, 14:08   #19
Sky
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Location: Glasgae
Age: 44
Posts: 675
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Kill Sauron, go to DL100, recall. Reset all your rods, do your prep, go down, drink 1 Enlightment, and win.
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Old October 13, 2017, 21:18   #20
AnonymousHero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Kill Sauron, go to DL100, recall. Reset all your rods, do your prep, go down, drink 1 Enlightment, and win.
"You lucky bastard" — Bullet-tooth Tony, probably.
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Sauron and Morgoth dhegler Vanilla 1 November 4, 2009 12:14


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