Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 20, 2017, 10:00   #11
dreembeard
Scout
 
dreembeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 46
dreembeard is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by kandrc View Post
Yes, I was just this past weekend rolling magic balls throughout my local mall. I thought I was doing a great service until I set off a fire trap just as a woman stepped out of Yankee Candle. The flames ignited her newly acquired wares, which she threw in fearful surprise. The burning candles wound up back in the store where much of the stock was alit, quickly filling the entire mall with the scents of vanilla and pumpkin spice. I explained to the woman and the Yankee Candle staff that I was merely using my magic balls to set off some traps in the interest of public safety. They thanked me for my diligence and we all had a little laugh.

There were no other incidents, but nonetheless, mall security showed up in an electric golf cart and asked me to leave because (they claimed) they were unable to deal with all of my orc summons. I swear, mall cops are weak. Good thing this was a level 1 mall. If I had been somewhere more advanced, like Mall of America, there's no way that mall cops could handle, for instance, Great Wyrms. Anyway, I tried to explain that I was doing this for safety, and one of the girls from Yankee Candle even showed up and told him about how I'd saved her store, but he insisted that I was somehow responsible and escorted me off the premises. Now the mall has filed for a restraining order against me. The worst part is, that mall is the only place around here to get an Auntie Anne's pretzel; now what will I do?
We do not have a big mall here in Bree, but I sympathize with your plight.
Maybe you should write a letter to Auntie Anne.

Also, I *love* your story-telling. Any plans for an Angband variant?

--------------------
Melee is for warriors.
We paladins prefer mêlée.
dreembeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20, 2017, 11:01   #12
dreembeard
Scout
 
dreembeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 46
dreembeard is on a distinguished road
Red face The Evil of the Ring.... of stone-to-mud

Quote:
Originally Posted by NimrodPE View Post
"Magic Ball" was admittedly (...)

It's not about disarming, this isn't the problem because I usually dig around traps that I don't want to touch.
(...)
Exactly what I see my characters doing! As soon as they get their greedy hands on a ring of digging, any trap that harbors the least bit of risk is circumvented, preferably by melting away the granite next to it, instead of trying to disarm the trap, or performing some good, honest digging. No matter how often I scorn them for such despicable conduct, they do it again whenever my vigilance wanes for a moment.

In this respect, I feel that the spell of stone-to-mud and the implements harboring it are a veritable pest in angband. Who other than Morgoth himself, the giant bard whose song makes mountains crack and crumble, could have inspired such magic? It is most certainly not Elvish, and even Aule will have been enraged when he saw how wands of stone-to-mud turned all his precious Implements of Digging into junk items.

And of all the items enchanted with this accursed magic, the rings are the worst, combining in them the power of digger and rod. I suspect that they were forged by the necromancer of Dol-Guldur himself, and will ultimately answer only to The One!

--------------------
Melee is for warriors.
We paladins prefer mêlée.
dreembeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21, 2017, 07:49   #13
fph
Knight
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Berlin / Italy
Posts: 554
fph is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
fuse S2M, Stun and DD into a Wand Of Impact. Also conveniently activates traps.
+1 to this idea. It would make for a great early-level item, one that is useful for a good part of the game. It would also help with id-by-use, and with the problem "found an early vault, have no shovel with me".
__________________
Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.
--
You read a scroll labeled 'lol gtfo' of Teleport Level.
fph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22, 2017, 22:39   #14
NimrodPE
Scout
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 30
NimrodPE is on a distinguished road
Ok, people, as creator of this post I think we have strayed too far from what I wanted us to think about. If there is an "us". For me - it is. Definitely.

So, let's cut the story-telling (sorry Dreambeard, although I really love your contributions, they are not helping here) and those jests and let's get back to square one for the following reason: either we may start to think about implementing a new item or we dismiss that.

1) Concerning problem Alpha: A dungeon crawler (let's name her/him HERO) finds a trap. Our HERO can neither disarm nor circumvent it, because HERO wants to go past this trap.
2) Question: How does HERO get past this trap?
3) Solution: HERO triggers trap from a "safe" distance, where the range of "safe" is arbitrarily.
4) This leads to problem Beta: How do you disarm a trap from distance when there is no such method? (We arbitrarily circumvent now the philosophical question if HERO could think about something nonexistent. I say HERO can, but that's for each of you to decide alone just like Schrödingers Cat. Feed it)

So, now that we are past puns, I need to tell you that I thought about traps like something to be triggered physically. Like with a button, a tripwire, maybe even a "magical laserbeam".

Thanks to Derakon I now understand that the concept of "traps" in angband is not innately physical.

5) Meaning: Traps can also be completely magical (= non-physical) and thus traps are not triggered by physical interaction.
6) This leads to: Therefore a "trap" can be completely magical, meaning in its entirety this "trap" can be understood just like a "field of (electromagnetical) energy" which interacts with HERO in some way. (see 7))

This makes something like my "magic ball" obsolete. Ok, got that, but if HERO walks on a trap-tile he disarms or triggers the trap automatically, even when wearing nothing and possessing zero items. I experienced that in one of my first attempts to play angband when I haven't even read a guide ;D

7) Which leads to: Traps are triggered by HERO in whatever way.

Now what I wanted to discuss was: Is there a need from the community to create/invent/make an "item" or "ability" which enables HERO to trigger traps from a "safe" distance?

My train of thought (yes, DT rocks, yay, pun, wohoo, you may keep it!): If I'd be HERO, I would think about a solution to this problem because as HERO I have only one life - this one. So dealing with deadly traps as safe as possible would be my number 1 priority IF I must deal with a specific trap.

But ss player... Well, I can have lots of HEROs.

Which is why I tried to think about an in-game-solution just like you do when playing Pen&Paper (which is where I hail from).

Now concerning some answers:
@Sky: Although I really appreciate your idea I don't think that I have enough angband-experience to support or deny your idea. But right now you are #1 contributer. Thank you!
@kandrc: Not helping.
@Derakon: Thank you for broadening my view and helping me understand the greater concept, also concerning the niche use of Stone to Mud/DD, which gives me enough reason to keep those items in the game.

Now concerning this post:
As far as I can see "we" do not need a new (merged) item/ability which is able to disarm traps from a "safe" distance.

Fine by me, I learned my lesson: Don't make suggestions which could contribute something new to the game because people won't like it.

8) Therefore: Post closed and abandoned at least by me.
NimrodPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22, 2017, 22:55   #15
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,950
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Aww, I don't think people didn't like your suggestion, more that they were more interested in being silly than in giving it serious consideration. But I'm sure that Nick and the other regular contributors read your post and mentally filed it away in their vast lists of ideas.

My big concern with any method of remotely triggering traps is, how do we make certain that this doesn't become just a gear check that renders traps irrelevant? That is, what's to stop me from carrying a big ol' pile of magic balls (or whatever the item is) and triggering every trap with them? How do we make the decision to remotely trigger a trap vs. interact with it some other way into an interesting decision?
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22, 2017, 23:45   #16
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 6,573
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
First, discussion is good, that's how I find out what's working in the game and what isn't. So you're contributing just by proposing stuff.

Now, your actual idea. Traps have been reworked recently, so discussion of how they're working is valuable. Currently only the player is affected by traps, and for most of them (summoning being the main exception) the player gets no bad effects from setting the trap off at a distance. The magic ball then just becomes a safe disarm from a distance - which we used to have with wands of Disarming and deliberately removed. So as it stands, probably a no.

Discussion is good, though
__________________
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Nick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 23, 2017, 00:20   #17
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,414
Estie is on a distinguished road
The new traps are good. One very minor point: halftroll warrior, who sets off most traps in his early life (which is as it should be) has to get past those that dont disappear when triggered. This can become annoying in a bad way, repeatedly walking over the trap, waiting for blindness or whatever to end, trying again.

Digging around works of course and if it is important, I am doing exactly that, but in a non-dangerous situation where I just want to pass there could be something like the "take 10" in dnd. My suggestion would be to limit the amount of times any trap can be triggered to maybe 3; that should be enough to make sure the trap matters when enrmies are near and allow passage with an acceptablle amount of repetition if there are none.
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23, 2017, 01:35   #18
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 6,573
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
The new traps are good. One very minor point: halftroll warrior, who sets off most traps in his early life (which is as it should be) has to get past those that dont disappear when triggered. This can become annoying in a bad way, repeatedly walking over the trap, waiting for blindness or whatever to end, trying again.

Digging around works of course and if it is important, I am doing exactly that, but in a non-dangerous situation where I just want to pass there could be something like the "take 10" in dnd. My suggestion would be to limit the amount of times any trap can be triggered to maybe 3; that should be enough to make sure the trap matters when enrmies are near and allow passage with an acceptablle amount of repetition if there are none.
Some traps automatically disappear on triggering (summon traps, for example). Maybe have all others have a 1/3 chance to disappear on each trigger?
__________________
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Nick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 23, 2017, 01:53   #19
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,414
Estie is on a distinguished road
Sure, that would work.
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23, 2017, 21:39   #20
wv_wxman
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
wv_wxman is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Some traps automatically disappear on triggering (summon traps, for example). Maybe have all others have a 1/3 chance to disappear on each trigger?
Oh, please, YES. Those early blindness/confusion/teleport traps when you are but an infant adventurer are annoying.
wv_wxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to do with items lukaus Vanilla 6 July 29, 2013 17:56
New items dhegler Vanilla 23 November 17, 2011 14:27
Permanently available items Derakon Vanilla 42 June 17, 2011 18:45
Lua "obsolete file error", blargh Therem Harth ToME 4 July 4, 2010 14:02
What about new items? Mondkalb Vanilla 16 May 30, 2007 12:25


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.