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Old October 10, 2017, 11:38   #11
fizzix
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I might recommend having some guaranteed vaults (the way that Sil does with forges). So you have one guaranteed greater vault between say 60 and 90, and another between 90 and 98. This only works once so you get it the first time you enter the floor. If you immediately fall through a trap door or are teleported off the level, tough luck.

I would also try to standardized the GVs a little so you don't have too many of the super risky with limited rewards vaults.

Of course you can still get more vaults, but they're going to be very rare.

Medium vaults should almost definitely be reduced in number. Lesser vaults, I think are ok based on my experience.
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Old October 10, 2017, 12:19   #12
Estie
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I might recommend having some guaranteed vaults (the way that Sil does with forges). So you have one guaranteed greater vault between say 60 and 90, and another between 90 and 98. This only works once so you get it the first time you enter the floor. If you immediately fall through a trap door or are teleported off the level, tough luck.

I would also try to standardized the GVs a little so you don't have too many of the super risky with limited rewards vaults.

Of course you can still get more vaults, but they're going to be very rare.

Medium vaults should almost definitely be reduced in number. Lesser vaults, I think are ok based on my experience.
You are kidding, right ?
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Old October 10, 2017, 15:54   #13
Oraticus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I might recommend having some guaranteed vaults (the way that Sil does with forges). So you have one guaranteed greater vault between say 60 and 90, and another between 90 and 98. This only works once so you get it the first time you enter the floor. If you immediately fall through a trap door or are teleported off the level, tough luck.

I would also try to standardized the GVs a little so you don't have too many of the super risky with limited rewards vaults.

Of course you can still get more vaults, but they're going to be very rare.

Medium vaults should almost definitely be reduced in number. Lesser vaults, I think are ok based on my experience.
You are kidding, right ?
Whenever I come to these forums to sift through the topics for fun, I often see posts that suggest cranking up the difficulty for the hardest of the hardcore. Don't forget some balance for new players who pick up this game when you say "Tough luck, looks like you weren't good enough".

I do, however, agree that too many vaults on a floor is not beneficial to either new or veteran players. Veterans need the challenge, and throwing loot boxes at them like crazy just softens the descent, even when it's forced/rapid. New players, however, are more likely to die on a multi-vault level when they clear one by TO'ing the tough stuff out of one vault, then are tempted to cross the map to the next vault and are forced to deal with their angry victims of spatial relocation.

Steady growth beats burst growth in pretty much every game.
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Old October 10, 2017, 16:30   #14
Derakon
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Steady growth beats burst growth in pretty much every game.
Kind of. You want the player to feel noticeably stronger, so it's more fun to have e.g. 5 step-increments that each make you 20% stronger, rather than 100 increments of 1%. But having a single step of 100% is excessive, and also the kind of thing that tends to happen with greater vaults.
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Old October 10, 2017, 18:42   #15
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... it's more fun to have e.g. 5 step-increments that each make you 20% stronger, rather than 100 increments of 1%...
What? You're saying you don't like incremental growth at the rate of 1/100,000ths at a time? The near non-noticeable nudging of native numerations to indicate your lethargic advancements toward fractional improvement?

Ok, so yes, when I said "steady growth" I suppose it would have been better to identify a balanced but appreciable growth as opposed to burst growth or a languishing long buildup.
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Old October 11, 2017, 00:52   #16
Pete Mack
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@Oraticus: I strongly disagree. My favorite games are those in which I go from desperately underpowered (in HP and speed) for a given depth to near endgame strength in a single greater vault. "Balanced growth" is dangerously close to "grinding", IMO. That said, I have no problem with cutting the ridiculous frequency of lesser vaults deep in the dungeon. But vaults like "Jigsaw" and "Diagonal" (not to mention the various checkerboard variations) are just huge rewards for an underpowered character. It's way more fun than gleaning critical stuff room by room.
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Old October 11, 2017, 01:58   #17
krazyhades
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Maybe I'm just not jaded enough to the boredom of slowly clearing/TOing a big vault and ending up super powered, but those are to me by far the most fun parts of the game, and I doubt I'm alone in feeling that way.
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Old October 11, 2017, 13:25   #18
Sky
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pitching in to the "too many vaults" thing, i'm CL44 HE and down to DL90 with plenty of grinding in between, i have not yet seen a single greater vault.

NOT ENOUGH VAULTS!
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Old October 11, 2017, 15:53   #19
Oraticus
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"Balanced growth" is dangerously close to "grinding", IMO.
If "balanced" growth is feeling like "grinding", then it's not what I'd consider balanced. Like @Derakon said, breaking it out into appreciable but not game breaking chunks matters. Honestly, I think a Greater Vault should give you a sizeable boost, but a few upgrades with an awesome item or two to spurn you on to your next trove of riches. Using the word "steady" in my first post was probably not the best choice… I'm not looking for a linear growth of power myself. :P

Then again, I guess playstyles can differ wildly. I like the idea that I could find something awesome at D20 relative to my character power just as I could likely find something relatively awesome at D80 and that I see spikes of growth as I go, as opposed to always playing to that "one critical moment".
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Old October 11, 2017, 15:54   #20
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pitching in to the "too many vaults" thing, i'm CL44 HE and down to DL90 with plenty of grinding in between, i have not yet seen a single greater vault.

NOT ENOUGH VAULTS!
Wow... that does feel unlucky.
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