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Old December 25, 2014, 17:52   #11
RogerN
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I like buzzkill's suggestion the best. But instead of listing items which affect resistance, I recommend a pop-up window for that when you hover your mouse over the bar.

If you want to be really nice to the player then you could also include the maximum damage (from a single attack) that's possible after resist is applied.
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Old December 25, 2014, 20:07   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
How about a simple horizontal bar chart (or several), one for element resistances, one for status resists (FA, SI, 0 or 100%) , status effects (bless, haste shown as probable % of spell remaining), one for plusses (to hit/dam, stealth, shown as % of excess of natural ability, with peak ability determining scale). Something like this, in it's simplest form.

The downside to this kind of bar chart is that the information density is really low. It may be OK for at game, but in general "Tufte says no" to bar charts .
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Old December 28, 2014, 23:31   #13
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I kind of agree. I admit I didn't expect the answers I got in this thread.

Some sort of grid where the player can simultaneously analyze what resistances/abilities they have, and see they have if a certain piece of equipment is the only source of that resist/ability seems essential.

I can see where a radio chart or bar chart would have a better visual appeal, but wouldn't it be losing some usefulness?
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Old December 29, 2014, 00:55   #14
Derakon
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Originally Posted by nppangband View Post
I can see where a radio chart or bar chart would have a better visual appeal, but wouldn't it be losing some usefulness?
Agreed. The current character screens have a fantastic compromise between information density and readability. They aren't perfect (mostly in that the text labels for some flags are confusing, e.g. "Imp.HP" for "impaired HP regeneration"), but they're pretty good. If you want to improve them, I'd be looking to do so mostly by adding tooltips and flyouts.
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Old December 29, 2014, 09:32   #15
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Agreed. The current character screens have a fantastic compromise between information density and readability. They aren't perfect (mostly in that the text labels for some flags are confusing, e.g. "Imp.HP" for "impaired HP regeneration"), but they're pretty good. If you want to improve them, I'd be looking to do so mostly by adding tooltips and flyouts.
Since NPP now has access to real graphics, it should be possible to refine the classic display a bit: You could essentially just render a table as the classic display does, but add the actual values to each table cell. You would just have to do it in a smaller font in order to keep the table's visual size manageable.

In stat slots you could display the full range, rather than going to "*" for values numerically larger than 9. For immunities and resists you could still display "+", "*" or even "33%" / "100%" (or "Imm."). For regeneration you could display the cumulative result of the Regeneration flag and "Imp. HP regen" flag as a percentage relative to "normal" regen (a fly-out or tooltip could display how the result was arrived at).

Make sense?
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Old December 29, 2014, 12:27   #16
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One other thing that might make sense, especially for new players, would be to display both the % damage resisted and the maximum. In Vanilla, resistances don't stack, but this isn't intuitive. Also the % resisted isn't shown. If you resist Chaos, for example, you resist about 16% IIRC, and that is the maximum. FAA and others however stack resistances.

I've never played NPP (sorry), but I think that if you get this right, then you could set the standard that others will copy when they catch up.
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Old December 29, 2014, 16:01   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivean View Post
One other thing that might make sense, especially for new players, would be to display both the % damage resisted and the maximum. In Vanilla, resistances don't stack, but this isn't intuitive. Also the % resisted isn't shown. If you resist Chaos, for example, you resist about 16% IIRC, and that is the maximum. FAA and others however stack resistances.
In Vanilla, many resistances are variable. Each time you get hit by that element, damage gets cut by anywhere from 1/7th to 6/7ths.

Yes, this is utterly bizarre, thank you for noticing.
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Old December 29, 2014, 16:54   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nppangband View Post
I can see where a radio chart or bar chart would have a better visual appeal, but wouldn't it be losing some usefulness?
Here's a (partial) screenshot of an actual spreadsheet I used for a winning DaJ character. Bare minimum required info, as this was entered and updated manually. I believe the first section is equipped items and ammo. Second section is carried swaps. Third is home inventory swaps.
More useful? YES. Somewhat confusing? Yes. Info still missing? yes.
If you could combine something like this with expanded mouseover info, I think you would really have something.

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Old December 29, 2014, 23:18   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivean View Post
One other thing that might make sense, especially for new players, would be to display both the % damage resisted and the maximum. In Vanilla, resistances don't stack, but this isn't intuitive. Also the % resisted isn't shown. If you resist Chaos, for example, you resist about 16% IIRC, and that is the maximum. FAA and others however stack resistances.

I've never played NPP (sorry), but I think that if you get this right, then you could set the standard that others will copy when they catch up.
My plan right now is to have a tooltip that completely explains the source of attack and the resist. For Resist Fire, a mouse hover over the label would bring up something like:

Fire attacks have a maximum damage of 1500 points. Depending on the type of ranged monster attack, the damage is based on either the monster's current hit points or spell power. Fire attacks can also destroy scrolls, arrows (etc). If the player has either a permanent or temporary resist they incur only 1/3 of the un-resisted damage amount, and it also helps protect inventory from damage. If the player has both permanent resist fire and a temporary active resist fire spell active, damage incurred is only 1/9 of the total un-resisted damage and the odds of player inventory being destroyed is further reduced.
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Old December 29, 2014, 23:25   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymousHero View Post
Since NPP now has access to real graphics, it should be possible to refine the classic display a bit: You could essentially just render a table as the classic display does, but add the actual values to each table cell. You would just have to do it in a smaller font in order to keep the table's visual size manageable.

In stat slots you could display the full range, rather than going to "*" for values numerically larger than 9. For immunities and resists you could still display "+", "*" or even "33%" / "100%" (or "Imm."). For regeneration you could display the cumulative result of the Regeneration flag and "Imp. HP regen" flag as a percentage relative to "normal" regen (a fly-out or tooltip could display how the result was arrived at).

Make sense?
Exactly! I was thinking about things like that for stat slots. The stat sustains could be made more obvious as well. Maybe a mouse hover could bring up all the items in the player inventory and home that also affect that particular stat/resist/ability. One of my biggest goals is to make it simpler for the player to see how various equipment lineups would look without having to try everything on.

Also, for pval items such as speed, instead of a simple +, it can display the actual change to speed (+3).
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