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Old May 11, 2015, 16:43   #1
Therem Harth
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Auto-ID for consumables

To expand on what I said in Nick's ID and detection thread...

I recently modified the Neoband git master to apply pseudo-ID to all items, not just wearables. Since {average} items get instant full ID, an unintended side effect was that {average} consumables were fully IDed on pickup.

I found that - by my measure anyway - this makes the game a lot more entertaining. When I know what consumables I have, I can deal with more situations, and have more courses of action available.

So I propose that, if nothing else, auto-ID should at least be implemented for low level scrolls. Beneficial items that are cheap and common should be obvious.

(Thematic excuse: scrolls have distinctive wording, and we should assume that Angband characters are not completely ignorant about the world they live in.)
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Old May 11, 2015, 17:16   #2
MattB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therem Harth View Post
So I propose that, if nothing else, auto-ID should at least be implemented for low level scrolls. Beneficial items that are cheap and common should be obvious.

(Thematic excuse: scrolls have distinctive wording, and we should assume that Angband characters are not completely ignorant about the world they live in.)
They can memorise them in the shop, if nothing else.
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Old May 11, 2015, 17:32   #3
Cold_Heart
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But evil consumables are fun
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Old May 11, 2015, 18:26   #4
wobbly
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My own view is that if I can buy it cheap in a shop it should start auto-ided. For dungeon only consumables would rather the need to id it somehow.
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Old May 11, 2015, 18:35   #5
MattB
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Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
My own view is that if I can buy it cheap in a shop it should start auto-ided. For dungeon only consumables would rather the need to id it somehow.
Agreed. I think.
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Old May 11, 2015, 19:43   #6
mushroom patch
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In this and other id related discussions, the following scene from breaking bad comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIG7VvngUK4

This is a case of choosing a half measure when you should go all the way. The fact that not having to worry about auto-IDing basic scrolls in the early game makes the game better and more entertaining should tell you something. Remember, when you get farther into the game, ID ceases to be a real factor strategically, it's just drudgery. So your discovery is that in the only place where ID really is a factor, eliminating it makes things better.

The conclusion ought to be ID is a bad idea and ought to be entirely removed.
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Old May 11, 2015, 19:46   #7
MadeOfBees
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Being able to id it if you have seen it before is already pretty much in the game, it should apply to shops it seems.

At the same time, drinking a potion of death out of desperation because its all you have and you have no idea what it is, is mad fun too, and shouldnt be removed.

No to removing ID, ever. Thats an essential part of the game. The most exciting moments happen in the first 1000 feet.

If it was up to me id remove the identify spell.
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Old May 12, 2015, 01:38   #8
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Originally Posted by MadeOfBees View Post
If it was up to me id remove the identify spell.
I'd be all for it if it wasn't for inventory constraints and for constantly being inundated with fresh loot.

edit: On second thought, the more I think about this, the more I like the idea. I think I'm gonna force myself to play without the identify spell for a while now.
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Old May 12, 2015, 19:21   #9
mushroom patch
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It's a sad testament to the game that players believe reading ID scrolls is one of the most exciting parts of it.

ID is a weird thing where it's so tedious that players become emotionally committed to it. The idea of changing it is horrifying if only because you'd have to come to terms with the hours you've spent reading thousands and thousand of ID scrolls over the years.

Last edited by mushroom patch; May 12, 2015 at 19:26.
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Old May 12, 2015, 20:32   #10
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroom patch View Post
It's a sad testament to the game that players believe reading ID scrolls is one of the most exciting parts of it.

ID is a weird thing where it's so tedious that players become emotionally committed to it. The idea of changing it is horrifying if only because you'd have to come to terms with the hours you've spent reading thousands and thousand of ID scrolls over the years.
There's anticipation involved in the process of discovering what an item is, especially if a) you have reason to suspect it could be good (e.g. dropped by a unique or chest), and b) you have no means of instantly identifying it. That anticipation can be fun. The problem is that it doesn't scale, like, at all.

Random theorycrafting: every item you find on a given level is sent to your home, immediately, and is inaccessible except between levels. At that time, you have a set number of ID charges you can expend, depending on how much you accomplished -- achieving a new max depth, killing uniques, and finding artifacts all give you more ID charges. Between levels, then, you can ID only some of the items you find.

The above system wouldn't scale at all well either, but I suspect it'd do better than our current system, especially if item drop rates were scaled down a bit.
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