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Old October 1, 2015, 15:32   #1
PowerWyrm
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Mage armor encumberance

Am I the only one who thinks a mage wearing 65lbs of armor should lose more than 35 out of 350 mana?
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Old October 1, 2015, 16:35   #2
Ingwe Ingweron
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Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Am I the only one who thinks a mage wearing 65lbs of armor should lose more than 35 out of 350 mana?
I think mages have it hard enough, especially when playing as one of the diminutive races.
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Old October 1, 2015, 17:08   #3
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Am I the only one who thinks a mage wearing 65lbs of armor should lose more than 35 out of 350 mana?
If we're going to make it worse, we should probably add some better light-armor artefacts, because the vast majority of them are really bad iirc. The zangbands and stuff added some more good ones.
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Old October 1, 2015, 17:57   #4
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Am I the only one who thinks a mage wearing 65lbs of armor should lose more than 35 out of 350 mana?
No, man, one of my bros from college became a mage and I remember the time we made him wear a full plate suit of armor we stole from the Met for initiation and he was so fucked up he couldn't even say the alphabet in greek forget about magic spellx. I'd say he lost at least 65% of his magic points in that armor...
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Old October 1, 2015, 19:15   #5
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Adamantite plate armour of free action (+7 speed) FTW
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Old October 1, 2015, 19:19   #6
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I don't really have a problem with the current SP penalties. They can be significant if you try to armor up early on, but by the time you're wearing 65 pounds of armor, you're well into the "way beyond superhuman" phase of the game where you're preparing to kill a god. It's not unreasonable (to the extent that reason even applies in these scenarios) for such characters to be able to still freely cast spells despite being walking tanks.
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Old October 2, 2015, 00:18   #7
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I don't really have a problem with the current SP penalties. They can be significant if you try to armor up early on, but by the time you're wearing 65 pounds of armor, you're well into the "way beyond superhuman" phase of the game where you're preparing to kill a god. It's not unreasonable (to the extent that reason even applies in these scenarios) for such characters to be able to still freely cast spells despite being walking tanks.
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Old October 2, 2015, 11:04   #8
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I think if we want to change something here, I would change the speed penalties from overencumbrance. In the beginning these are quite severe, a gnome mage constantly has to worry about what to carry with him, while a HT warrior does not. However, once you reach the point in the game where characters routinely have more than +10 speed, this effect practically disappears. Yes you still get a speed penalty but it doesn't really matter to have -2 speed because of overencumbrance if your base speed is +27. I think this penalty should at least scale with your speed, maybe even faster than your speed bonus. A high level mage should suffer some penalty for carrying around 3 full plate armours as swap items.
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Old October 2, 2015, 13:28   #9
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Encumbrance is a funny case in angband where it seems like an important consideration early and has some impact on what you should carry and so forth, but then it goes away later when you have the speed and strength not to have to think about it anymore. The funny part is this: Why doesn't this make you question whether encumbrance is worth having in the game at all? It's not like you get your first speed ring or boots, some STR potions and suddenly feel this sense of loss that you no longer have to think about whether you want to carry an extra alt weapon or armor or a fifth staff of whatever.

The argument I would expect is that you've "overcome" the drudgery the game put on you from the start by getting those items, so you are rewarded by not having to worry about some trivial bookkeeping garbage. This is, of course, totally absurd because getting speed and getting STR have much more satisfying and important effects than making encumbrance irrelevant and any sense of accomplishment in increasing those stats derives primarily from those.

In conclusion, encumbrance is garbage and should be removed.
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Old October 2, 2015, 16:54   #10
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The argument I would expect is that you've "overcome" the drudgery the game put on you from the start by getting those items, so you are rewarded by not having to worry about some trivial bookkeeping garbage. This is, of course, totally absurd because getting speed and getting STR have much more satisfying and important effects than making encumbrance irrelevant and any sense of accomplishment in increasing those stats derives primarily from those.
Wow, you do an awful job of characterizing people who don't agree with you.

Angband is, from one perspective, a game about gaining power, or put another way, a game about losing weakness (it's all relative, right?). How is losing a limitation on your carrying capacity not satisfying? And it's not "trivial bookkeeping garbage" -- in the early game you really do have significant limits on what you can carry, and this impacts how you play the game in a major way.

It's important that the early game play differently from the late game. If every part of the game feels the same, then there's no real sense of progression; you're just doing the same thing as you did at the start, only with bigger numbers. Stripping away "human" limitations as the character gains power is an important part of this. It's not just carrying capacity, but also having to work with a meager hitpoint and spellpoint pool, having only one or two blows/round, not being able to detect what's going on around you, being unable to see invisible monsters, etc. etc. etc. All of these eventually become irrelevant as the player gains in power; should we then strip them away because they're therefore somehow pointless?
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