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Old February 14, 2018, 10:45   #1
johnretroreload
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Z+Angband dev

I wanted to highlight Z+Angband by Mangojuice now at 0.3.3 (beta), released 12/25/2010. And to propose new development on this if anyone is interested?
https://sites.google.com/site/mangojuice75/

This was his original thread from 2008 http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=818
I've found the sound+music doesn't function despite adding the new sound set from angband + midi's.
Zangband being my favorite variant for 24 years since v1.6, I still maintain the need for adding new features yet remaining loyal to its unique features, poschengband has very notable elements.
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=7527
(xorzac mentioned - zangband running on a linux emulator for android)
-More hardcore difficulty? Not just ironman mode.
(Hugothegreat2011 mentioned - On the other hand, PosChengband doesn't need Strygalldwir to menace the wilderness when its various mobs or dragons are brutal enough at low levels.)
(droof - I really like the random world map of Zangband. Every game a new place to start from and a new world to explore. I think that's a lot more fun than starting from the same place in the same world each time, like tome2 and unangband..I'd combine the Zangband random world and wilderness with the Unangband dungeons, like an UnZangband)

Anyone interested? Or proposing zangband new elements?
https://www.deviantart.com/art/Sword...-SAO-726397028
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Old February 14, 2018, 12:03   #2
Gwarl
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A brief stint of development, ended 8 years ago, making minor changes to Zangband, mostly visible due to the similarity in name with its legendary progenitor. The inheritor of the Zangband legacy is poschengband (possibly composband). Look there for a bigger, more modern, actively developed successor to Z.
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Old February 14, 2018, 20:54   #3
droof
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Poschengband is more like tome2 than Zangband. Which is great, just not a Zangband replacement.

I have trouble compiling Z+Angband 0.3.3. That's not a great start, given that Zangband 2.7.5 both compiles for linux & raspberry pi and cross-compiles for windows just fine. If I try anything, it'll be on Zangband.
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Old February 14, 2018, 22:05   #4
Gwarl
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https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...cgi?bug=496863

a lot of Z descendants suffer the same bug, Z+ included
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Old February 14, 2018, 22:30   #5
droof
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwarl View Post
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...cgi?bug=496863

a lot of Z descendants suffer the same bug, Z+ included
Well, that explains why my character wouldn't roll with the v2.7.3 on zangband.org. The version I'm using, 2.7.5 seems to have it fixed without the patch. Z+Angband 0.3.3 uses that exact patch. Still good to know, thanks!
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Old February 14, 2018, 23:16   #6
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afaik it was never fixed by the zangband team or any of the descendants besides chengband. I think the debian maintainer was the only one who applied the fix. Certainly I had to do it myself when I compiled 2.7.5
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Old February 15, 2018, 01:19   #7
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Okay, I patched it into 2.7.5, just in case.

I also tried a little harder compiling Z+Angband. The maintainer used windows and forgot linux, looks like. I had to remove a couple of carriage returns from the configure file and add a missing cmd7.o to the makefile.std. Now it runs. I'll try it out.

I like the idea of keeping everything as true procedural and random as possible, not pre-designed. That's what draws me to Zangband. I'll drop a couple of ideas for a Z variant here:
- adding missing procedural unangband rooms for more dungeon variation
- SDL interface (looking at Sangband as example interface)
- optional haggling instead of on / off at birth
- random interesting quests
- skills instead of classes
- chatty townfolk and monsters for added personality and AI decision insight
- story picked random from "7 plots", each with chatbot-style variations
- optional brogue-style inventory-based item interactions as alternative to single-purpose keybindings
- easier doomrl-style shooting controls
- multiple town themes, but still procedural generated
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Old February 15, 2018, 11:16   #8
Gwarl
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I want to comment on some of these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droof View Post
I like the idea of keeping everything as true procedural and random as possible, not pre-designed. That's what draws me to Zangband.
And yet nobody really liked the procedurally generated overworld. Peak Zangband had a static overworld, and the variants which survive forked from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droof View Post
- SDL interface (looking at Sangband as example interface)
Forced fullscreen, forced subwindows, I have heard nothing but complaints about Sang's interface. "I really want to like Sang, but I can't get past certain design decisions"

Quote:
Originally Posted by droof View Post
- chatty townfolk and monsters for added personality and AI decision insight
Poscheng has talking monsters, not sure it reveals anything about the AI though. I think the talking came in around Heng.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droof View Post
- story picked random from "7 plots", each with chatbot-style variations
Kangband has 7 plots each with its own quest sequence. Game balance wise they're horrible but it's rich source material I've been pulling from for my own variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droof View Post
- easier doomrl-style shooting controls
This one is easy. I always keymap 'h' to *tfa5 for single keystroke firing. Vanilla angband makes this part of the default set of keymaps so you dodn't even need to make the keymap. If you wanted two-keystroke firing for more flexibility, make your keymap to fa*t.
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Old February 15, 2018, 19:26   #9
johnretroreload
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Nice activity and discussion here, I'm liking the ideas being suggested.
I agree on the random and procedural is what made zangband unique even when wilderness came in for me.
Nice work droof on cleaning the code.
The Quests also made it special for me, I was thinking of more sub-quests with random item drops and even armour sets for bonus? Plus an extra final boss in a special area.
I've noticed on Z+Angband that sound + music doesn't seem to function despite wav and midi in place.
For controls, I still use roguelike myself being oldschool.

I was also thinking of a zangband competition with prizes, like a games expo or gamedev presentation to really play tribute to the community and fans. Just a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droof View Post
Okay, I patched it into 2.7.5, just in case.

I also tried a little harder compiling Z+Angband. The maintainer used windows and forgot linux, looks like. I had to remove a couple of carriage returns from the configure file and add a missing cmd7.o to the makefile.std. Now it runs. I'll try it out.

I like the idea of keeping everything as true procedural and random as possible, not pre-designed. That's what draws me to Zangband. I'll drop a couple of ideas for a Z variant here:
- adding missing procedural unangband rooms for more dungeon variation
- SDL interface (looking at Sangband as example interface)
- optional haggling instead of on / off at birth
- random interesting quests
- skills instead of classes
- chatty townfolk and monsters for added personality and AI decision insight
- story picked random from "7 plots", each with chatbot-style variations
- optional brogue-style inventory-based item interactions as alternative to single-purpose keybindings
- easier doomrl-style shooting controls
- multiple town themes, but still procedural generated
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Old February 15, 2018, 21:23   #10
Gwarl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnretroreload View Post
I was also thinking of a zangband competition with prizes, like a games expo or gamedev presentation to really play tribute to the community and fans. Just a thought.
We had one recently, it didn't prove very popular.

http://angband.oook.cz/competition.php?showcompo=210
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