Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 10, 2020, 22:20   #11
Vanilla maintainer
Nick's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 57
Posts: 9,405
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enoughNick will become famous soon enough
As Estie says, there is no real balancing of classes or races against each other - Since I've been maintainer they've probably become less balanced if anything. My aim is to try and maximise fun and variety.

As for the overeating mechanic, that has been recognised as overdone; in the latest development version it's been changed so that digestion becomes much faster when full, so at worst it's about 10 turns of penalty.
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10, 2020, 22:37   #12
Pete Mack
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,701
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
I just won in 88k player turns with a warrior. On the other hand, I found the Trident of Wrath at DL 40/CL 33 and used it the rest of the game, with occasional swaps to Aglarang. I definitely got 6 blows.
That said, i agree that for HT, 6 blows is nearly impossible, and heavy weapons bring max blows down to a little over 5. But the strength multiplier and extra stats makes a big difference for standard artifacts.

BTW: Best Bert/Bill/Tom drop ever.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2020, 01:02   #13
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,130
Estie is on a distinguished road
My earliest Wrath find was from Wormtongue; more likely event having him drop it than Bert trio, I guess.

As for warrior balance, even the "bad" 2k heal alone makes up for the extra blow (percentage) in the late game; but imagine finding Pain instead of Wrath.
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2020, 04:09   #14
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Midwest
Age: 34
Posts: 397
archolewa is on a distinguished road
Personally, I've won several times with a warrior (three or four I think) and never with a mage, despite trying many times. I've only won once with a Rogue, and that was with 4.2.0, before wand recharging got nerfed a bit. So the warrior doesn't feel weak to me, just better aligned with a different playstyle.

I really like the warrior because their high HP gives you room for error. You're much less likely to get one-shotted by a breath because you mistook Kevlax the Many Headed for a young dragon. You're also less likely to get thrown into tough situations by the RNG (i.e. your frostbolt spell fails three time in a row and suddenly a podunk Hydra becomes a major threat because you're almost out of SP and the hydra still has lots of HP).

They're also, paradoxically much less dependent on dungeon drops. Mages need specific drops (i.e. the dungeon books) to become more powerful. Warriors just need speed, resistances, and weapons (and telepathy). Where those resistances are, where those speeds are, and what weapon it is really isn't that important.

I would also argue they're more powerful than paladins until paladins get Heal reliable, and more powerful than blackguards until blackguards get Wolf Form. By the time the other classes surpass the warrior, the warrior is still *plenty* powerful enough to facecrush most things.

In short, other classes may have a higher ceiling of power, but warriors have a much higher floor, and it's the floor that matters until the endgame.

Last edited by archolewa; November 11, 2020 at 05:49. Reason: stupid homophones
archolewa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2020, 05:16   #15
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 42
Saru is on a distinguished road
The way I think of it warriors should be weaker compared to other classes endgame than other classes for multiple reasons, but I'll spare you all the tirade

Muscle can only take you so far before you turn to spells.
Clearing levels one spell at a time.
Saru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2020, 05:18   #16
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,590
wobbly will become famous soon enough
I think in terms of reliably being able to win I'd pick warrior. Which is partially just preference and certainly the priest is a contender there. While most classes can win quicker then the warrior, I suspect the average win time is probably better on the warrior then the full casters. Most players will take a long time putting a mage through. Going for a fast turn count on a mage is risky. Its possible, but you don't have much room for mistakes.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2020, 06:20   #17
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,130
Estie is on a distinguished road
Youre all bonkers. A paladin isnt _that_ much weaker than a warrior at the start; just play him as if he was a warrior, except stay 5 levels more shallow, if you must (its very possible to get more milage out of him).

Youll have to buff up with spells before the fight, but after that is done, paladin is as good as warrior.
He will surpass warrior long before 2k heal becomes reliable - basically, after the first couple stat potions when either gets ~3+ attacks with the heavier weapons.

Lategame is no contest, as everyone agrees.
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Overeating Poll Egavactip Vanilla 20 October 29, 2020 03:50
So I guess rogues really are easier sffp Vanilla 14 April 28, 2020 16:50
Rogues TJS Vanilla 10 February 5, 2015 18:59
Mages, spells and rogues Estie Vanilla 49 May 7, 2011 22:01
New To Rogues ElectricPaladin Vanilla 22 September 30, 2009 01:01

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:39.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.