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Old September 23, 2009, 23:36   #1
Hariolor
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Idea to spice up uniques

Maybe this is already done in some variants -

I think it would be interesting (maybe not practical?) to do a little more with uniques. Especially so now that Uniques seem like less-than-desirable targets due to the (apparent) increase in mediocre drops in 3.1.1. I am thinking specifically that there are several unique creatures that are the top-of-the-line of their kind. Kill them, and see no more (non-uniques) of their kind in the dungeon.

I am thinking off the top of my head:

Obvious choices:

Queen Ant
Qlzqqlzuup, the Emperor Quylthulg
Beholder Hive Mother

Potential others:

Cantoras
Vecna
Glaurung
Kronos
The 9 W's
Ungoliant
Medusa
Lernean Hydra (replace with kavlax?)
Tselakus
The three Angels (Gabriel, Uriel, Azrael)
Draugluin (get rid of both C's and Z's?)
The four E's
The Cat Lord
Baphomet
...
you get the idea
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Old September 24, 2009, 01:38   #2
Sirridan
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The beholder unique is Ormax the Eye Tyrant btw.

In any case, I like that idea, at least for some, especially the cat lord, ugh cats stop being dangerous when you can melee sabertooths without going below half health.

Ant's and beholders are not a big threat (at least, they aren't common enough to be)

W's even become a joke towards the end, however the various U's G's and L's are all quite dangerous, and many are unrelated or could exist without their high-uniques, removing them all would honestly make the game easier.
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Old September 24, 2009, 02:33   #3
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Man if Drauglin got rid of Zs I'd dive to depth and use up all the consumables I had to kill him. Somehow, I don't think that's every going to make it.

This sounds like a solution to a TMJ problem (where J stands for junk monsters)

Would these monsters not be selectable by the RNG or would they just get banished from the level after creation? I'm guessing the second one, because otherwise it'd make the game a lot harder, and would kind of be in-line with a change that set a maximum depth for monsters as well as a minimum depth.

That said, with the exception of Zs there isn't a group of monsters that I find annoying once I'm significantly stronger than them. So this wouldn't really convince me to go out of my way to kill them. The most reasonable one, i guess, would be omarax. But no drop and drain charges means that he/she/it is not worth it, even if it means I don't have to TO undead beholders anymore.

So (IMO) this would have the effect of cleaning up levels (less easy monsters) for higher level characters, but wouldn't have very much significant game play issues.
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Old September 24, 2009, 02:39   #4
Djabanete
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I would rather see more uniques drop fixed artifacts, even if the artifacts are are more flavorful than powerful.
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Old September 24, 2009, 03:19   #5
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I think a limited version of this would be cool flavor (no idea/opinion about gameplay effects). I can see killing off the Cat Lord making all the felines flee from Angband, and killing Dragluin making all the werewolves leave, for example, but why would Zepyr Hounds care if Drag died? Would Huan or Charcaroth leave? We already 'know' that destroying Vecna won't route the liches because he's been destroyed in his source material and IIRC the lich community was unphased.

There are some interesting questions about Tolkien uniques. Gothmog's death coincided with the destruction of most Balrogs, right? But should the Balrog of Moria hang around, on account of being one of the survivors, or should he disappear, representing him fleeing to Moria? Same sort of puzzle with Shelob and Ungoliant.
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Old September 25, 2009, 09:52   #6
Nightmarjoo
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So after implementing this, you never fight Glaurung, Ancalagon, Smaug, Itangast, or Scatha because you wouldn't want ancient dragons to disappear.

How about something like "kill x amount of uniques and hounds stop appearing in the game"~
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Old September 25, 2009, 23:17   #7
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I think that Farmer Maggot shouldn't show up until you kill his dogs.
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Old September 26, 2009, 03:04   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdermyer View Post
I think that Farmer Maggot shouldn't show up until you kill his dogs.
I think that Farmer Maggot shouldn't be hostile until after you kill his dogs.
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Old September 27, 2009, 21:33   #9
Hariolor
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I was rather thinking that introducing something like this would give incentive to kill Uniques other than having them out of the RNG for the last fights with MoS, Sauron, M, and the other summoners.

As it is, Uniques are, well, not very unique. Time hounds alone are scarier than *any* unique at *any* level of play. As it is the uniques are not going to give much better rewards relative to the effort needed to kill them (and no, exp is not enough of a reward, since the majority of cool uniques are fought at the lowest depths). So why not have at least some of them tied to monsters of the same/similar type, so the bold @ can really clear out the dungeon in preparation for M.

The downside, of course, is that chasing away dragons or dreads or other good-drop creatures means less chance of scumming for artifacts and !Life and such when preparing for sauron and M.

At the very least I'd like to be able to get rid of Q,Z,C,a,e,f - not because all of them are challenging necessarily, but more along the lines of resolving the TMJ[monsters] problem fizzix noted.
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Old September 28, 2009, 02:15   #10
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How about tying the rate of occurance of monsters to the number of uniques of that flavor left, without completely removing them. Kill 2 or 3 unique o's, and the number of orcs drops, etc.
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