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Old July 12, 2011, 12:15   #31
Max Stats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
Can we get a bat cave, or is that too much like the bird's nest.
But where are you going to fit the Batmobile in there?
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Old July 12, 2011, 14:50   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
Can we get a bat cave, or is that too much like the bird's nest.
I did try a nest of bats, but I didn't like it much: clearing it was just annoying rather than actually difficult, since it's full of vampires, disenchanters and breathers that aren't hard to kill but keep hitting you.

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Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Sounds like fun ideas... but this calls for adding a level cap for pits/nests. Adding all those low level pits/nests would make deep levels boring as hell (not only you would get j/o pits, but k pits, c pits...).
Don't they have a soft cap already now? I don't know the code, but I believe they're normally distributed around the average level, so they're not impossible to find deeper but pretty unlikely.

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As you said, it should add variety to the first half of the dungeon. For the second half of the dungeon, see my other post about angel pits, unlife nests and similar fun and lethal ideas
I think the challenge with deep pits is creating one that players will actually bother trying to clear. A lot of the things you could put in a pit at that level are just too lethal in large quantities to attempt going anywhere near. But I've got a few ideas I'm going to test when I've got more time...

Re: spellcasters duplicating kobolds and dark elves, I'm not sure it's actually a bad thing to have pits/nests that overlap with the monster selection seen in others. It's still adding a bit of variety if you find a kobold pit in one game and a spellcaster pit in another, even if the experience of clearing it is similar.
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Old July 12, 2011, 14:58   #33
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A round of applause from my desk for your hard work. Having more types of pits and nests in the game is exactly the kind of new variety that will keep me playing Angband. Super, super cool.
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Old July 12, 2011, 16:08   #34
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Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
Don't they have a soft cap already now? I don't know the code, but I believe they're normally distributed around the average level, so they're not impossible to find deeper but pretty unlikely.
That is correct. You'll almost never see a pit 30 levels shallower or deeper than its average. (Effectively never -- I think the chance is lower than 1/32000, if I remember how Angband handles the normal distribution and how exactly I coded it.)
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Old July 12, 2011, 17:05   #35
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That is correct. You'll almost never see a pit 30 levels shallower or deeper than its average. (Effectively never -- I think the chance is lower than 1/32000, if I remember how Angband handles the normal distribution and how exactly I coded it.)
I'm glad to hear it's a soft cap -- I think it adds a bit more variety than a hard cap. You can always say that the kobold pit on dlvl 90 was a pet store.
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Old July 12, 2011, 23:21   #36
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Nomad: I've just submitted a pull request with all the expanded pit functionality that has come up here. That should make it easier to make some of the pits you wanted, like Thiefs and Warriors. I've also used the new functionality to exclude Horned Reapers from demon pits.
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Old July 13, 2011, 16:45   #37
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Originally Posted by CunningGabe View Post
Nomad: I've just submitted a pull request with all the expanded pit functionality that has come up here. That should make it easier to make some of the pits you wanted, like Thiefs and Warriors. I've also used the new functionality to exclude Horned Reapers from demon pits.
Awesome. That should make quite a few ideas I had more feasible.

One question about the code: is it possible to put treasure on the ground in a room that's set up as a pit rather than a nest? Pit.txt seems to allow for it, but it doesn't look like items are actually being generated. There are some monsters that it seems to make more sense to put in organised pit form, but they don't really have enough to drops to make it worth clearing without some sort of extra reward.
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Old July 13, 2011, 17:12   #38
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Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
One question about the code: is it possible to put treasure on the ground in a room that's set up as a pit rather than a nest? Pit.txt seems to allow for it, but it doesn't look like items are actually being generated. There are some monsters that it seems to make more sense to put in organised pit form, but they don't really have enough to drops to make it worth clearing without some sort of extra reward.
Good catch -- that was an oversight. I added a fix for that to the pull request.
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Old July 13, 2011, 17:15   #39
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Good catch -- that was an oversight. I added a fix for that to the pull request.
Excellent.
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Old July 13, 2011, 21:35   #40
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All right, another batch of additions, probably the last ones for the moment. Seven new pits and two new types of nest. Depths are, as before, rather dubious stabs in the dark and likely to need some adjusting:

* DL 30 - ogre pits
* DL 30 - mimic nests
* DL 35 - believer pits (priest & paladin types)
* DL 40 - wizard pits (apprentice/illusionist/mage/sorcerer)
* DL 55 - hydra nests
* DL 55 - vampire pits
* DL 60 - angel pits
* DL 65 - golem pits (drolems excluded)
* DL 85 - gold dragon pits

So, 13 new pits and 5 new nests all together, bringing the totals up to 23 pits and 8 nests. I think this is probably a good point to stop adding new ones and get down to some more in-depth playtesting.

This is the current distribution of pits and nests, old and new, across the whole dungeon:

* DL 15 - kobolds
* DL 20 - jellies, spellcasters, creepy crawlies, minor demons
* DL 25 - orcs, naga
* DL 30 - dark elves, eyes, ogres, mimics
* DL 35 - believers
* DL 40 - serpents, wizards
* DL 45 - trolls, lesser undead
* DL 50 - animals
* DL 55 - hydra, vampires
* DL 60 - angels
* DL 65 - giants, golems
* DL 80 - undead
* DL 85 - acid/elec/ice/fire/poison/gold/multi-hued dragons
* DL 105 - demons

Playtesting and feedback on depths, treasure levels, unexpected monsters etc. greatly welcomed.
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