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Old August 31, 2021, 17:46   #41
wobbly
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Likewise I may not have 10 at once but over the course of a full game I'd use more then 10. I generally prefer not to switch numbers as my devices change, as that can cause unfortunate accidents. My rods of TO and my wands of TO are on the same number (as is my staff of teleport). My wand of light and rods of light are on the same number etc. They are on the same number across games and do not change number during a game, etc. etc.
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Old September 8, 2021, 01:06   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Likewise I may not have 10 at once but over the course of a full game I'd use more then 10. I generally prefer not to switch numbers as my devices change, as that can cause unfortunate accidents. My rods of TO and my wands of TO are on the same number (as is my staff of teleport). My wand of light and rods of light are on the same number etc. They are on the same number across games and do not change number during a game, etc. etc.
That's much how I do it.
The same number does the same thing across @r, @q, @u and @z (I only ever have one @a, lol). Well, sort of... @r1 is phase door, whereas @q1 is CCW. And all the 5's are saved for identify... so i guess it needs updating anyway.
But I definitely have z1 - z9 sorted.
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Old October 8, 2021, 18:29   #43
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I want to chime in on combining all the item activations for staves, wands, rods, etc. I think these were considered separate for historical reasons, but there's no intrinsic reason we couldn't just have a single key to use an item. You could also combine single-use scrolls and potions into a single key, or combine everything into one generic 'use item' key.

While I'm used to things as they are, and I expect everyone else on here is too, for someone coming into the game I can see this being an unnecessary barrier to entry.
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Old October 9, 2021, 08:17   #44
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Originally Posted by tangar View Post
atm
h/j/k/l/y/u/b/n
doesn't really make sense when everybody get used to wasd movement. Roguelike (no numpad) keyset should use wasd+q(NW)+e(NE)+z(SW)+c(SE)...
That's also a very good point. The average gamer 'expects' WASD.

Unfortunately this requires forgoing many good mnemonics: Quaff, Wear/wield, Eat/Equip/Equipment, Drop/Disarm/Drink, Activate, Steal/search, Zap, ...

In particular, if those 9 keys on the left are reserved I don't see natural choices for zapping, drinking, stealing, wearing equipment. Do you have a concrete proposal, or at least some brainstorming ideas? I'd love to make this work but it seems challenging, unless one wishes to change the interface completely.
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Old October 9, 2021, 16:27   #45
Pete Mack
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HJKL came from the vi editor (1976), which was created and widely used at Berkeley when Rogue(1980) was invented. Anyone who was familiar with either one, or any later variant of rogue, has HJKL in muscle memory
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Old October 9, 2021, 18:05   #46
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Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
HJKL came from the vi editor (1976), which was created and widely used at Berkeley when Rogue(1980) was invented. Anyone who was familiar with either one, or any later variant of rogue, has HJKL in muscle memory
Thanks for the history lesson. I came late to Unix and Emacs was already well established. The only experience I had with vi is watching the vi/Emacs flamewars on USENET.
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Old October 10, 2021, 19:35   #47
Julian
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Originally Posted by fph View Post
That's also a very good point. The average gamer 'expects' WASD.
I'm unconvinced. The average gamer expects a controller or a touchscreen. WASD is very much a PC first-person shooter thing, and I don't see any reason to think it instinctively translates from that context to an eight-cardinal-directions one. QWEADZXC would make more sense for that.

In any event, the idea was to harmonize the existing command sets. I'm unconvinced that upending everything and creating a brand-new command set would make any noticeable improvement in the game's appeal.

If you wanna argue that we should go to a compass in the letter keys because the roguelikes are kind of awkward (which they are), try the right side. YUIHKNM, or IOPKL:,./ would make the most sense, but I'm not going to try to make it work.

In particular, putting everything on the left side makes control-direction much, much harder, since not all keyboards have right-side control keys. (The one I'm on now doesn't, for instance.)
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Old October 10, 2021, 19:42   #48
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Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
HJKL came from the vi editor (1976), which was created and widely used at Berkeley when Rogue(1980) was invented. Anyone who was familiar with either one, or any later variant of rogue, has HJKL in muscle memory
These days, it’s mostly that NetHack uses those directional keys, which is a good argument for keeping them.

(Other rogue likes may also, but I’m not familiar with them.)
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Old October 11, 2021, 06:03   #49
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These days, it’s mostly that NetHack uses those directional keys, which is a good argument for keeping them.

(Other rogue likes may also, but I’m not familiar with them.)
Yup. I originally came to Angband after playing Nethack for a long time and had gotten very used to the roguelike commands then.
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