Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 15, 2021, 22:06   #11
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,538
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
In amy case, armor weight is only important when you don't have much mana to begin with. It is 1MP for every pound over the limit. It doesn't scale with max mana
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4, 2021, 15:56   #12
NCountr
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 53
NCountr is on a distinguished road
Newb Trap

So Movement Speed still has not been clearly defined. It's still completely undocumented for a new-comer to Angband. This is a Newb Trap. It should be removed from vanilla and kicked back out to the off-shoots.
NCountr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4, 2021, 17:36   #13
Sky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: London-ish
Age: 48
Posts: 2,064
Sky is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCountr View Post
vanilla = 4.1.3
off-shoots = 4.2
the answer is contained within your question.
__________________
"i can take this dracolich"
Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4, 2021, 22:39   #14
NCountr
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 53
NCountr is on a distinguished road
The cold seeps into your bones..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
the answer is contained within your question.
Wow, we're being awful creative with the side effects of a lot of here-to-fore basic attacks.

Here's yet another example of how the Game Designers are inventing rather random fixes (impairments) in vain attempts to balance out the wrong point of the game.

The game was thrown into disarray long ago with Arrows (+3, +2) being boring. Now we've seen the culmination of this track in to ever more petty inconveniences to the player. No longer will it be perfunctory enough to have double-cold resist up (which used to be akin to Immunity). No, no, no.. now, we're going to let cold bust not only your potions .. through double resist .. and bust up your Dexterity. Newb Trap!!

Seriously?
NCountr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5, 2021, 01:09   #15
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 9,114
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCountr View Post
Wow, we're being awful creative with the side effects of a lot of here-to-fore basic attacks.

Here's yet another example of how the Game Designers are inventing rather random fixes (impairments) in vain attempts to balance out the wrong point of the game.

The game was thrown into disarray long ago with Arrows (+3, +2) being boring. Now we've seen the culmination of this track in to ever more petty inconveniences to the player. No longer will it be perfunctory enough to have double-cold resist up (which used to be akin to Immunity). No, no, no.. now, we're going to let cold bust not only your potions .. through double resist .. and bust up your Dexterity. Newb Trap!!

Seriously?
This effect only happens for powerful monsters (POWERFUL flag or spell power 80 or more), and if the damage after resistance is greater than 500, and if it passes a random roll. So a player with a single source of RCold hit by a maximum strength cold breath from a powerful monster has a one in 16 chance of DEX damage. A player with double resist has zero chance.

The intent of this is a gentle warning to the player that taking a full-strength breath of one of the base elements from a powerful monster while singly resisting might not be a great idea.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5, 2021, 15:09   #16
sffp
Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: DC Area
Posts: 224
sffp is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCountr View Post
So Movement Speed still has not been clearly defined. It's still completely undocumented for a new-comer to Angband. This is a Newb Trap. It should be removed from vanilla and kicked back out to the off-shoots.
I've seen some of your posts in other threads. You make some good points/suggestions occasionally. But here you really sound like a petulant child.

Nick and the others do work. You're taking shots from the peanut gallery.
Maybe take the tone down a little.
sffp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5, 2021, 19:29   #17
NCountr
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 53
NCountr is on a distinguished road
The Mother of All Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
This effect only happens for powerful monsters (POWERFUL flag or spell power 80 or more), and if the damage after resistance is greater than 500, and if it passes a random roll. So a player with a single source of RCold hit by a maximum strength cold breath from a powerful monster has a one in 16 chance of DEX damage. A player with double resist has zero chance.
Incorrect. I had double-resist on at the time, so the code's broken or the algorithm is.

These happen far more often than you may think.
The stench sickens you. ... and CON goes down? Seriously?

The point is not to make semi-random side-effects for POWERFUL mobs to counter what has happened over the years to player equipment.

Nick -- you've done great work in making the dungeons more interesting. The layouts of normal levels are far better compared to what we had in 3.0. Kudos for that. The cavern and vault levels are still annoying and ought to be removed completely.

But, adding in STAT damage for powerful mobs using basic elemental attacks calls into question the whole ramification for "resists". The basic argument back in 3.x was players were having it too easy with simple resists, so double-resists were required to stave off POWERFUL mobs at that point. But then player equipment ratcheted up in power to make it easier for players to have double-resists anyway.

Then came plasma... <insert_eye_roll> . The fire that could over-power RFire. Because too many players were having it too easy with double-resists. Oh, and mages were too powerful, as always.

Now we have a plethora of undefensible attacks: mana, plasma, water (one of my favorites), ice, gravity, force (because that sounds so different from gravity), and of course ... Time.

With the exception of mana, all of those should be stricken from the game. The whole paradigm of how one poses obstacles and impediments to the progress of the character needs a huge overhaul. You should not be adding petty penalties willy-nilly to players---who, for all practical purposes, play the game in a cogent manner. Some of the mob tactics have improved to make tackling them more of a challenge, that is good. I like how you've broadened their activities; the packs of unrulings are great fun.

- While player power in general, with mob power, has been in disarray for quite some time, the point of Angband is what? To make it so a player who's trudged through 50-levels suddenly get trounced by an unexpected, indefensible attack at 3500' ? or, in the case of STAT reduction, plinked away at by those over-whelming elemental attacks? Is that how you intend to improve Angband?

For me, traditionally, Angband has been about navigating the higher mobs and uniques past 2000' to get to Morgoth and finishing the game. The life-threatening part is typically < 2000'. I think that's always been the case and I'm rather fine with that. I can start over sooner. Now, I'm wondering what sort of extra-punch the U's and D's might have that here-to-fore double-resist handled because someone, some time ago, whined that his win was too-easy and mobs should be harder. Maybe next time, tell him to put down his Mace of Disruption of Extra Attacks and play without it. Why penalize everyone else because his warrior has 8-10 swings a round (I guess more with Movement Speed bonuses now) and 1200+ health?

Last edited by NCountr; July 5, 2021 at 20:41.
NCountr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5, 2021, 20:44   #18
NCountr
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 53
NCountr is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sffp View Post
I've seen some of your posts in other threads. You make some good points/suggestions occasionally. But here you really sound like a petulant child.

Nick and the others do work. You're taking shots from the peanut gallery.
Maybe take the tone down a little.
I'm still wondering what "Movement Speed" is. I've had a character with +2 Movement speed on for some time now, and I still cannot comprehend how or what it is. I've not seen a FAQ for it. No discussion of it other than in this thread here. So... what is it?

Frankly, I'm not here to appease everyone and be all chummy. I think that's how we've seen a lot of Feature Creep happen to the game over the years. Sure, I'm in the Peanut Gallery, but aside from Nick, who isn't? Nor does it invalidate some of my data points.
NCountr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5, 2021, 21:15   #19
archolewa
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Midwest
Age: 33
Posts: 374
archolewa is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCountr View Post
Frankly, I'm not here to appease everyone and be all chummy.
Then why are you here? I understand not wanting to appease everyone, thats a fools errand. Someones going to be annoyed anout something in any group larger than 0.

But this is a forum for people to come together and discuss a game that they all love. The *whole point* is to be chummy and discuss the finer points of the game, talk about things they dont like, things they do and changes they'd like to see made (and not made) in the future, and yes even have disagreements. However, it is completely possible to have arguments without belligerence.

So if you aren't here to be chummy, I ask again, *why are you here*?
archolewa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5, 2021, 21:16   #20
Ed_47569
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eastham, Wirral, UK
Age: 38
Posts: 79
Ed_47569 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Ed_47569
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCountr View Post
Then came plasma... <insert_eye_roll> . The fire that could over-power RFire. Because too many players were having it too easy with double-resists. Oh, and mages were too powerful, as always.

Now we have a plethora of undefensible attacks: mana, plasma, water (one of my favorites), ice, gravity, force (because that sounds so different from gravity), and of course ... Time.
I am pretty sure all of these have been in the game since 2.4 (Frog-Knows). I wonder if any of the old Warwick people who might lurk on this forum could confirm?

As for the stat-drain with elemental breaths, I remember that being a thing around version 2.5.x or 2.6.x when Charles Swiger was briefly the maintainer. I think that was removed by Ben for 2.7.x. In any case, it's so rare that it is almost inconsequential. By the time you encounter such attacks you will have plenty of options for restoring stats.
Ed_47569 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
YAWP, 4.2.1 mage thoughts, movement speed artifact balance drquicksilver Vanilla 11 March 7, 2021 09:08
My Ranger finds +3 Movement speed cloak Grotug AAR 4 February 12, 2021 00:49
+4 movement speed = +40 movement speed Grotug AAR 8 February 4, 2021 19:53
+4 movement speed = +40 movement speed? Grotug Vanilla 4 February 2, 2021 22:12
Movement code changes Pete Mack Development 4 October 30, 2016 10:17


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.