Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 31, 2021, 12:28   #11
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,538
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Much better. Chaos bolt was good in the old mage spell set because there were other options, and it had the best damage to mana ratio prior to Mana Storm. But it was good only against uniques. Otherwise you had to use either nether bolt or meteor storm during that long dry spell after CL ~35.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2021, 18:14   #12
Eric
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 18
Eric is on a distinguished road
I like these changes. I've been trying out Necromancer lately, it's a fun challenge. I haven't gotten to Corruption of Spirit much to have an opinion, but those seem like positive changes while retaining the difficulty. Unhelpfully, I *have* been sort of enojying Miasma as a dangerous but sometimes lifesaving option, particularly with an early rConf or rChaos - but it takes a lot of double checking damage vs. HP of monsters, and I've still gotten burned with the fully-healing-polymorphs a few times.

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone talk about Command'ing a Black Reaver or something to trample things... it's on my to-try list (or is there something like L's are un-commandable?)

Would it be OP to have a 'darken item' spell that would attempt to remove +1 light each time, with possible breaking or curse inducing side effect, or possibly instead removing some other bonus? It'd be cool to have more light options than Lantern of Shadows, esp. with randarts. The times that I've found one, I've been high enough level to not care much about the light issue any more. Probably tricky, might sort of nullify the challenge aspect if the spell came too soon, or not be useful if it shows up very deep.
Eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2021, 20:14   #13
Selkie
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: London
Posts: 337
Selkie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric View Post

Would it be OP to have a 'darken item' spell that would attempt to remove +1 light each time, with possible breaking or curse inducing side effect, or possibly instead removing some other bonus? It'd be cool to have more light options than Lantern of Shadows, esp. with randarts. The times that I've found one, I've been high enough level to not care much about the light issue any more. Probably tricky, might sort of nullify the challenge aspect if the spell came too soon, or not be useful if it shows up very deep.
I actually think that's a bit of a genius idea. I don't think it would damage the game mechanics. Especially playing randarts there are so many weapons and armour with +1 light. A small risk of cursing the object would balance the spell
Selkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2021, 22:04   #14
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 9,114
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkie View Post
I actually think that's a bit of a genius idea. I don't think it would damage the game mechanics. Especially playing randarts there are so many weapons and armour with +1 light. A small risk of cursing the object would balance the spell
Necros can already wear +1 light gear without it affecting their darkness. The point of this spell would be to allow them to Darken, say, the Arkenstone.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5, 2021, 01:26   #15
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 9,114
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Latest nightly version on the releases page has the changes I suggested below.

I didn't go with the Darken Item idea. It does have some appeal, but it feels to me like the light in things like the Phial is pretty fundamental, so removing it would probably just turn it into a piece of useless glass. So reduced utility of the light slot is just cost of doing business for a necromancer.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5, 2021, 17:22   #16
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,919
Estie is on a distinguished road
I want to add a remark here, after the fait accompli of the dark necromancer and not expecting it to cause any changes.

My issue with darkness has always been that it never models the features to resemble the actual reason for you as the actor to like it: that is that the enemy is disoriented and hindered by it, but you are _not_ (or at the very least, less than the enemy). Whether thats because your eyes are attuned or you have infravision or something else doesnt matter.

In most games its the opposite - the player gets diminished information but the (ai controlled) enemies do not. ToME4, for example, simply gives the rogue some kind of damage boost when fighting in darkness. The monsters dont care at all if its dark or not. To me, that doesnt feel right.

So I was curious (but not hopeful) about how Nick would approach the topic.
The necromancer is supposed to like the dark. Why ? Well, apparently because nothing works for him when its light. Ok.

My pessimism did not stem from thinking Nick cant have good ideas - I dont think that - but from assuming that changing the ai behaviour to take light into account is a tall order. And of course, all the dungeon denizens are supposed to be super adept at orientation in darkness. Which brings us back to the initial question: why exactly did the Necromancer of Dol Guldur like the darkness ?
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5, 2021, 17:54   #17
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,538
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
@Estie--
Because it is thematically on point? I mean, ask a silly question...

BTW: you made a comment about randarts in a recent ladder entry of mine. I actually disagree: I had a crazy stat stick in the otherwise nearly useless bow slot for a Blackguard. That opens up a ton of options, like using a damage ring that'd be tricky to use with standarts without dropping CON/DEX/STR. Also, until very late in the game I was using a +2CON, +5 STL(!) amulet. I gave it up for the last few levels. I also found a +6 STL cloak, but I kept the +4 STL Elven cloak of the Magi with trap immunity instead--and posted it to the memorable ego items thread.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5, 2021, 19:35   #18
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,919
Estie is on a distinguished road
OK. Why does the assassin like the dark ? Because its thematic, duh.
Above I gave a reason why an assassin might like the dark, which might be the reason it has become thematic. Is there some real reason for the necromancer as well, or are we stuck with just "meh, theme" ?

@randarts:
What do you disagree with ?

Edit: I realized that your ladder entry was not a good place to write, but I couldnt think of a good way to move the thread someplace better, like a necormancer spell thread
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5, 2021, 20:19   #19
wobbly
Prophet
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,520
wobbly will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
@randarts:
What do you disagree with ?

Edit: I realized that your ladder entry was not a good place to write, but I couldnt think of a good way to move the thread someplace better, like a necormancer spell thread
There's a thread for the character in AAR over here:

http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthr...t=10774&page=2

if you don't want to put it in the necromancer spell thread.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5, 2021, 22:52   #20
Selkie
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: London
Posts: 337
Selkie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Latest nightly version on the releases page has the changes I suggested below.

I didn't go with the Darken Item idea. It does have some appeal, but it feels to me like the light in things like the Phial is pretty fundamental, so removing it would probably just turn it into a piece of useless glass. So reduced utility of the light slot is just cost of doing business for a necromancer.
Thanks Nick, can't wait to try out the latest iteration of the necromancer
Selkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Origin of spellbook names passer_by Vanilla 20 August 11, 2018 23:48
Help with using spellbook inscriptions Thailog Vanilla 4 January 17, 2015 14:24
Create your own (mage) spellbook Mark Vanilla 10 June 30, 2014 22:26
spellbook frequencies fizzix Vanilla 10 October 25, 2012 13:47
spellbook drops PowerDiver Vanilla 15 July 17, 2009 00:55


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.