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Old July 12, 2021, 01:33   #71
archolewa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sffp View Post
Of course, if you do try Morgoth too early, you can either die (easily) or just run out of required consumables too soon.
Thats what makes it exciting! 😆
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Old July 12, 2021, 14:07   #72
sffp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
They show up all over. But surely wands are OK for a ranger. It actually sound like your bow is the problem. I just lost a Ranger to frustration at DL 80; with a
Code:
shortbow of Might <x3> (+14,+25)
I just started mashing keys with a not-really-endgame weapon.

That is possible:
I had this for a while:

b) a Long Bow of Power (x3) (+8,+23)
Found lying on the floor at 550 feet (level 11

which made for a highly over-powered early game character

But replaced it with this:

b) the Short Bow 'Pelum' (x4) (+10,+15) <+3, +2>
Dropped by a dread at 2500 feet (level 50)

+3 constitution.
+2 shooting speed.
+2 shooting power.
Branded with weak acid.
Provides resistance to Nexus, Disenchantment.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by Acid, Fire.
Sustains wisdom.

When activated, it grants temporary resistance to acid,
electricity, fire, cold and poison for 1d20+20 turns.
Takes 270 to 330 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 95.8%


Most of my arrows look like this:

2) 9 Arrows (1d4) (+7,+7)
Combat info:
When fired, hits targets up to 140 feet away.
Average damage/round: 412.8 vs creatures not resistant to acid and
275.1 vs. others.
35% chance of breaking upon contact.

This was great for Sauron/Ringwraiths and the like. Just not the big P.

If I had some rods of TO, I could do most of the damage with archery and finish with:

a) the Tulwar of Garamin (2d4) (+10,+31) [+1] <+4, +1>
Dropped by The Witch-King of Angmar at 4950 feet (level 99)

+4 stealth.
+4 searching skill.
+1 light.
Slays undead (powerfully), dragons (powerfully), demons
(powerfully), giants, trolls, orcs, animals, evil creatures.
Branded with weak poison.
Provides resistance to Acid, Lightning, Light.
Provides protection from fear, confusion.
Cannot be harmed by Acid.
Sustains intelligence, dexterity, constitution.
Grants the ability to see invisible things. Prevents paralysis.
Blessed by the gods (combat bonuses for holy casters).

When activated, it restores your wisdom.
Takes 214 to 237 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 93.7%

Combat info:
5.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 460 vs undead, dragons, and demons, 400.5 vs
giants, trolls, and orcs, 370.5 vs animals, evil creatures, and
creatures not resistant to poison, and 341 vs. others.
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Old July 12, 2021, 14:08   #73
sffp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archolewa View Post
Thats what makes it exciting! 😆
Oh it was exciting
But it reminded me of the quote, "When you come after the king, you best not miss."
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Old July 12, 2021, 14:26   #74
Pete Mack
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That mace isn't really suitable for melee with M. Getting around 500/round vs evil should be relatively easy. Since you're not using it as a stat stick, you might as well go with damage. Sustains are not worth the tradeoff--and definitely not for a Ranger.
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Old October 8, 2021, 15:28   #75
skydyr
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As a separate suggestion, what if ?Deep Descent were removed, and instead stairs moved you a random (say 1-5) levels up or down? I do think the endgame suffers from there not being as much distinction between the levels as in the earlier game, and this might help alleviate it.

Newbies could just go back up if necessary (perhaps with a birth option to preserve stair length), and you could find the right stairs to get you down quickly if you want to dive.

As a separate change that follows on this, perhaps the really good vaults like a GCV could be found by coding the game to create a set of several deep descents terminating in a level with no stair down but with the vault in it, and you'd have to go up a bunch of levels to get back to the main line, so to speak. A greater vault would really be a series of a few levels culminating in a major score, and could easily incorporate the gauntlet style level in between. Alternatively, there could be a level design specifically for a greater vault, that generates a lot of OoD loot and monsters in rooms together that is found at the end. If you teleport out or recall, of course, you don't go back to the side path with the vault at the end.

I realize the way the code for level 100 works would need to be rejiggered for this next one, but you could potentially set up vaults that sit deeper than than by skipping past it where you could dump a serious horde and fantastic loot to challenge the player. If you can take a major vault sitting at DL 120, you should hopefully find most of what you need to take on Morgoth when you get back to the main dungeon line.

I do think if this is fully implemented, teleport level would need to be modified somewhat to account for the stairs jumping around.
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Old October 9, 2021, 06:46   #76
ewert
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To be honest, my last game or two where instead of diving I trudged through the levels, I noticed a huge difference in danger between 60 and 90. I think maybe, the experienced players have a biased view due to knowing stuff and skipping stuff a lot.

Also, now I don't think anything really needs to be done with vaults vs drops really. Playing a janitor is a choice, not a necessity, most of my stuff in the late games are all drops or just found elsewhere on the floor, I am not doing many vaults at all ...
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Old October 9, 2021, 16:29   #77
Pete Mack
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The big spike in difficulty is DL ~ 85, where Greater Balrogs become native.
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Old October 11, 2021, 09:49   #78
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I didn't really think of it in the sense of specific monsters, but just felt the density of dangerous ones goes up enough to make things, well, more dangerous. An individual one vs experienced player isn't a big issue really usually.
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Old October 11, 2021, 14:19   #79
skydyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
To be honest, my last game or two where instead of diving I trudged through the levels, I noticed a huge difference in danger between 60 and 90. I think maybe, the experienced players have a biased view due to knowing stuff and skipping stuff a lot.

Also, now I don't think anything really needs to be done with vaults vs drops really. Playing a janitor is a choice, not a necessity, most of my stuff in the late games are all drops or just found elsewhere on the floor, I am not doing many vaults at all ...
I agree 60 is still pretty distinct but once you get to 70 or 75 I think many players are just sifting through stuff they find for endgame gear or consumables, and if you don't have your evades and detection down pat, you're dead anyways. In many ways the focus of the game has changes such that the monsters don't matter as much anymore, at least in my experience. They certainly get more dangerous, but if you can't deal with them at 90 you probably couldn't deal with things at 70 or 75 reliably enough to survive long-term when you were there.

Maybe, as you said though, this is just player skill, but personally I remember when I first started being able to win that getting to 60 was hard but by that point I had enough speed, escapes, and detection that I could reliably get myself out of trouble later on and would only die to stupid things if I did. Granted, this was probably around 3.0.6 or so.
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Old October 11, 2021, 16:05   #80
archolewa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
To be honest, my last game or two where instead of diving I trudged through the levels, I noticed a huge difference in danger between 60 and 90. I think maybe, the experienced players have a biased view due to knowing stuff and skipping stuff a lot.

Also, now I don't think anything really needs to be done with vaults vs drops really. Playing a janitor is a choice, not a necessity, most of my stuff in the late games are all drops or just found elsewhere on the floor, I am not doing many vaults at all ...
This is how I usually play (a steady descent, with very little diving or floor repetition), and my experience is the same. I also find it much more enjoyable.

Sometimes, I think experienced players optimize themselves into a boring game without realizing it, and I would encourage people to change up their playstyle sometimes, especially if you find yourself bored grinding the endgame.
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