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Old August 27, 2021, 18:32   #21
Pete Mack
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Slash is bog standard for search functionality--it has been so since 'ed' and 'sed' were primary editing tools
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Old August 27, 2021, 20:58   #22
sffp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
So do I, but I use shift.

For those who use the run command separately, do you want to tell us why you prefer to do it that way?

(I doubt it’s going away or getting noticeably less convenient, but it might get moved a bit.)
Not sure if I understand

shift what makes me run in the intended direction?
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Old August 28, 2021, 00:03   #23
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There's an old joke about standards:
Currently there are 12 standards, so we introduce this new one to unify them. Now there are 13 standards.
To avoid doing this, I think once there is agreement on what the command set should look like, then
  1. It should be the default and
  2. Switching to the original and roguelike sets should be annoying but not impossible.
So probably remove the roguelike keyset option, and have both original and roguelike available by copying a pref file somewhere. The main thing that worries me is that that may be difficult to do on angband.live, but then maybe that's a good thing
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Old August 28, 2021, 02:09   #24
Julian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sffp View Post
Not sure if I understand

shift what makes me run in the intended direction?
Shift direction makes you run that way.

Just like period then direction
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Old August 28, 2021, 21:29   #25
sffp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
Shift direction makes you run that way.

Just like period then direction
Ah - the arrows - NOT the keypad.
The arrows don't do diagonals


edit - oh wait - the keypad too - I just have to take NumLock off.

I dunno. I've been using . to run for 30 odd years now. Is there some advantage to shift? Are you changing for change's sake?

I play with my right hand on the keypad to control direction and my left hand over the keypad
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Old August 28, 2021, 22:10   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sffp View Post
Ah - the arrows - NOT the keypad.
The arrows don't do diagonals


edit - oh wait - the keypad too - I just have to take NumLock off.

I dunno. I've been using . to run for 30 odd years now. Is there some advantage to shift? Are you changing for change's sake?

I play with my right hand on the keypad to control direction and my left hand over the keypad
Agree. Only time I use the arrows is if I forget my keypad (external bluetooth one) but then I still use '.' to run. Shift to run doesn't seem intuitive and it doesn't work with my keypad, as it doesn't have NumLock.

Though arrows can do diagonals, you have to set the movement delay to a small amount (I use 10).

Last edited by mrfy; August 28, 2021 at 22:20.
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Old August 28, 2021, 22:30   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
Ok, that’s some good reasons against moving run off period. I hadn’t considered the other keys on the keypad (I’ve been roguelike since before Angband), and that’s some prime real estate.

So, what’s Angband using that real estate for?

Good:
.: run
+: alter
*: target

Bad:
=: options
-: nothing
/: identify character

So, what’s a good use for those keys, to let keypad people operate better?
Universal use seems obvious, but what else?

(Also, some googling for keypad images suggests that not everyone has = on their keypad, unlike the extended Mac keyboard I have handy. Seems weird, but I’ll believe it.
Mine doesn't have =, but it does have tab / * - + . and enter
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Old August 29, 2021, 00:14   #28
Julian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sffp View Post
I dunno. I've been using . to run for 30 odd years now. Is there some advantage to shift? Are you changing for change's sake?
Advantage? Perhaps not; I always figured it was easier for the numpad players to operate shift and control with their left hand while trying directions with their right, but some people disagree, and I’m personally convinced that my initial thought on swapping comma and period was wrong. (But I’m not the person who makes any decisions here.)

My initial thought was to reduce the inconsistencies between the command sets; Nick wants to go further. Neither is change for change’s sake. (In particular, the multiple command sets create a number of quirks in the code that I’m sure Nick would like to be able to eliminate.)

Last edited by Julian; August 29, 2021 at 00:27.
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Old August 29, 2021, 02:51   #29
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Shift running lets you pass stairs and branches with fewee keystrokes. I have used it and the roguelije keyset since forever.
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Old August 29, 2021, 03:39   #30
Julian
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I’ve taken Nick’s idea and run with it. Here’s a proposal for a new command set.

Some notes:

Some of my move choices are carefully reasoned. Some are “Well, I stole its old key and it has to go somewhere.”

Slash is currently empty. Because it’s on the keypad, it should probably be a very commonly useful command, but nothing jumped out at me as being the one.

For keypad reasons, there’s an argument for moving options off equals, but I didn’t.

I did more stacking of related commands on modifiers of the same key than I did in my initial post.

I’ve combined and modified a couple of commands.

On unix shells, some of the control keys have meanings that would get in the way of Angband using them. I don’t know how common playing Angband in a unix shell is anymore, but ^S (stop flow control) and ^Z (suspend process) are used for unusual commands. ^Q (resume flow control) is a special key, but only after a ^S, so we can use it. (It’s also possible Angband can override ^S and ^Q anyway; I’m not about to build it for shell just to find out.)

All changes from the current roguelike command set are marked with an asterisk:

Code:
* a    Aim (target nearest)
  b    (walk - south west)
  c    Close a door
  d    Drop an item
  e    Equipment list
* f    Fire ammunition
  g    Get objects on floor
  h    (walk - west)
  i    Inventory list
  j    (walk - south)
  k    (walk - north)
  l    (walk - east)
  m    Cast a spell
  n    (walk - south east)
  o    Open a door or chest
  p    -
  q    Quaff a potion
  r    Read a scroll
  s    Steal from a monster (rogues)
* t    Throw a weapon
  u    (walk - north east)
* v    Fire default ammo at target
  w    Wear/wield equipment
  x    Examine (look around)
  y    (walk - north west)
* z    Zap a wand/rod
  !    -
* @    Identify symbol
* #    Take notes
  $    -
  %    -
  ^    (special - control key)
  &    -
  *    Target monster or location
  (    -
  )    Dump screen dump
  {    Inscribe an object
  }    Uninscribe an object
  [    Display visible monster list
  ]    Display visible object list
* -    Use an item
  _    Enter store
  +    Alter grid
  =    Set options
* ;    Ignore an item
* :    Toggle ignore
* '    Walk (with pickup)
  "    Enter a user pref command
* ,    Stay still (without pickup)
  <    Go up staircase
* .    Run
  >    Go down staircase
  \    (special - bypass keymap)
  `    (special - escape)
* /    -
* TAB  Repeat previous command
  |    Quiver list
  A    Activate equipment
  B    (run - south west)
  C    Character description
  D    Disarm a trap or lock a door
  E    Eat some food
  F    Fuel your lantern/torch
* G    -
  H    (run - west)
  I    Inspect an item
  J    (run - south)
  K    (run - north)
  L    (run - east)
* M    Browse and learn spells
  N    (run - south east)
* O    -
* P    -
* Q    -
  R    Rest for a period
  S    See abilities
  T    Take off equipment
  U    (run - north east)
  V    Version info
* W    Dungeon map (Where)
* X    Examine full map
  Y    (run - north west)
  Z    Zap a staff
  ^A   (special - debug command)
  ^B   (alter - south west)
  ^C   (special - break)
  ^D   Walk into a trap
  ^E   Toggle inven/equip window
  ^F   Repeat level feeling
  ^G   Do autopickup
  ^H   (alter - west)
  ^I   (special - tab)
  ^J   (alter - south)
  ^K   (alter - north)
  ^L   (alter - east)
  ^M   (special - return)
  ^N   (alter - south east)
  ^O   Show previous message
  ^P   Show previous messages
* ^Q   Save and quit
  ^R   Redraw the screen
  ^S   Save and don't quit
  ^T   Dig a tunnel
  ^U   (alter - north east)
  ^V   -
  ^W   (special - wizard mode)
* ^X   Center map
  ^Y   (alter - north west)
* ^Z   End character & quit
   ~    Check knowledge
   ?    Help
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