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Old June 23, 2010, 02:15   #21
Nameless
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Normal Remove Curse scrolls are all that's needed to get rid of an object that is described as "It is cursed." You need *Remove Curse* scrolls for an object that is described as "It is heavily cursed."
It isn't explicitly described as either of these. When looking at the item (Command "I") the description states only "Cursed." I'm not sure whether this is an "ordinary curse" or "heavily cursed" - it doesn't seem to match the older versions (which did read as you state, IIRC). I'll have to trawl the source and find out tomorrow, to be sure. May find better boots before then and make this moot.

Left off at dungeon level 57 - I now have Raal's and Tenser's. The former seem expensive for their effects (but I haven't looked at it carefully) and the latter appears to be useful only for recharging or branding store-bought and self-enchanted bolts. (But Mommy, I didn't WANT to be a ranger!)

Edit:
Holy carp! It's no wonder Raal lost his book in the dungeon. That much power is apt to make you overconfident fast!

I see now that Raal's is particularly remarkable for the secondary dazing effects (shockwave, ice storm) or high-areas (cloudkill/icestorm). A couple of Shock Waves or Ice Storms appears to daze most targets into insensibility (X is more dazed), at which point you can simply mop them up - speed and daze are a nasty duo if the monster can't recover. (Medusa did not, once ice stormed into a coma.) Rift appears to be massive damage (75-290) but I'm not sure why I'd want to risk teleporting an enemy away if I already have them on the ropes, and the mana cost is exorbitant... More study is required. (Can monsters be grazed by Explosion? It doesn't appear so thus far, so I'm assuming it's just a way to bypass thorny resistance issues, like MH* foes.)

(various tortured monster screams and loud bangs are heard)

...fascinating.

Last edited by Nameless; June 23, 2010 at 04:41.
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Old June 23, 2010, 06:02   #22
Pete Mack
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Cursed means an ordinary curse.

As for what you really need to go deeper:
1. CON. 18/62 is very low for a mage. In general, if you have SP > HP, your player is in trouble...
for example: use Theoden. CON + ESP over rPois is a complete win.
2. Courage of your convictions.
If you are going to go below 2000' with < 300 HP, you need to be very aware of the maximum damage that monsters can do, even when you resist their breath attacks.

Even things like rElec may be less useful, because unless you have double resist, the max damage you can take is 1600/3 = 533. You are a long way from that...

If you dive with low HP, the most valuable attributes are, in no particular order:
ESP
Speed
Stealth
Detection
Teleport Other

You have to assume that just about every at-level monster can kill you.
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Old June 23, 2010, 07:19   #23
PowerDiver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
Rift appears to be massive damage (75-290) but I'm not sure why I'd want to risk teleporting an enemy away if I already have them on the ropes, and the mana cost is exorbitant...
Rift is the best of the lot, by far. It is a gravity attack, not teleport other. They don't go too far away. It is a beam, so you get everything in a corridor. You are shooting Ancalagon down a corridor, he summons, you keep rifting until the interlopers blocking your shots are displaced. You can teleport them if they come back from another direction.
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Old June 23, 2010, 07:48   #24
Nameless
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First off - thanks again to those of you still following along. I know better than to get excited so early, but it's nice to have the advice as I continue descending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Rift is the best of the lot, by far. It is a gravity attack, not teleport other. They don't go too far away. It is a beam, so you get everything in a corridor. You are shooting Ancalagon down a corridor, he summons, you keep rifting until the interlopers blocking your shots are displaced. You can teleport them if they come back from another direction.
I'll have to toy with it. I've been avoiding uniques unless they're the sort that are below where they'd normally appear. As an example, tonight I found one (Thuringwethil, The Vampire Messenger) ten levels OoD, and just set the wayback machine for "Get that nasty thing out of my face, pronto!"

The summoner uniques have been nastier than the rest, though, so maybe Rift is what I've been looking for without realizing it. My intial test was on a pack of demons, and when they were teleported out of the corridor they were in and teleported into the room I was standing in (scattered, no less) it was rather a flat note, to me. I'll poke at it some more.

Edit: Testing against Eol proved Rift's worth. High damage allowed me to kill or displace many of his summoned dragons, though I was careful never to fight more than Eol and one dragon (max survivable one-round damage). Between Rift, TO, and acid bolts, along with phase occasionally putting walls between us to allow me to rest, I was able to wear him down. This is similar to the first fight I had with Medusa - the hydras were too powerful for me to eliminate quickly, and rift would have worked very well there.

Does dazing (Shock Wave, Ice Storm) affect enemy spellcasting in any way (dazed/more dazed) or is this simply a stun that can be layered on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Cursed means an ordinary curse.
I found a scroll of *Remove Curse* To back me up, so I tested it out before reading this. Deathly cold indeed! (But not for long. Brrr.) Now I just need a few dozen "Enchant Armor" scrolls, and I'll have a useful (though not particularly great) set of boots.

Quote:
As for what you really need to go deeper:
1. CON. 18/62 is very low for a mage. In general, if you have SP > HP, your player is in trouble... for example: use Theoden. CON + ESP over rPois is a complete win.
Stat gain potions have handled this on the descent to 2950'. CON is now maxed. (See dump at the bottom.) Equipment has me at 18/140 presently, and unless I do strange things that leave resist holes, I can't squeeze much more out of the stat at the moment.

Quote:
2. Courage of your convictions.
If you are going to go below 2000' with < 300 HP, you need to be very aware of the maximum damage that monsters can do, even when you resist their breath attacks.
Maxing CON has gotten me well over 400HP. Not enough to sneeze at big breathers, but with base resists double-resisted and most (but not all) high resists covered, I've done all right so far. Two (gaping) holes I'd really like to plug are nether (which shows up in nether bolts/balls regularly now) and chaos, but I haven't gotten a way to do it without losing something else I don't wish to lose. Unfortunately, there ARE a few things that breath nether and chaos as well. I've seen them on the way down, and my only recourse is Teleport Other and look for a way off the level. (I love the 0% failure rate. I could kiss it. Really.)

The dump at the bottom is wearing my current equipment. A set that swaps in Hithlomir, Thorin, and Thranduil takes care of most of my overlaps in the resistance category, and give me a much better resistance pattern (one that includes nether and chaos) but I lose rConf, and for a mage, that's really, really bad - I don't want to be in the position of chugging !CCW every round if I can avoid it. I'm hanging onto them for the time being - if I can find something with rConf on it, I'm in business - with all resists covered, at the cost of about 18HP from present. (This, of course, means I won't see the item I need until after I get breathed on...)

Quote:
Even things like rElec may be less useful, because unless you have double resist, the max damage you can take is 1600/3 = 533. You are a long way from that...
All base resists are double-resisted - equipment and spell-based resists. I don't leave home without Haste Self and Resistances running at all times. Sadly, this won't save me from a big nether/chaos breather...

Quote:
If you dive with low HP, the most valuable attributes are, in no particular order: ESP, Speed, Stealth, Detection, Teleport Other
I have all of these - permanant speed is currently running at +12, up to +22 with Haste, but that starts to become "average" and "expected" at around 3000' according to the old scrolls of wisdom...

Quote:
You have to assume that just about every at-level monster can kill you.
I have been. There are a few exceptions. If the Rod of Probing turns up a pure-melee monster, I can handle those. Phase door, haste, and a bevy of ranged spells makes that fight somewhat lopsided, if lengthy. The addition of large damage (from Rift) and daze (Ice Storm/Shock Wave) looks to make them a little less tedious.

--

And now here's the current dump for those still following along and to bring this thread fully back up-to-date as I near 3000':
Code:
[Angband 3.1.2v2 Character Dump]

 Name   Nirruden                                 Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Sex    Male         Age            124   STR:  18/78  +1  -5  +6  18/98
 Race   High-Elf     Height          73   INT! 18/100  +3  +3  +9 18/***
 Class  Mage         Weight         208   WIS:     16  -1  +0  +0     15
 Title  Warlock      Social  Role model   DEX! 18/100  +3  +1  +7 18/210
 HP     460/460      Maximize         Y   CON! 18/100  +1  -2  +5 18/140
 SP     267/272                           CHR:  18/87  +5  +1  +4 18/187

 Level               36   Armor   [39,+104]     Saving Throw         84%
 Cur Exp        1126604   Fight    (+23,+9)     Stealth           Superb
 Max Exp        1126604   Melee   (+36,+26)     Fighting       Excellent
 Adv Exp        1265000   Shoot    (+40,+9)     Shooting       Excellent
 MaxDepth   2950' (L59)   Blows      4/turn     Disarming            83%
 Game Turns     2431152   Shots      2/turn     Magic Device         115
 Player Turns    356862   Infra       40 ft     Perception       1 in 16
 Active Turns    112231   Speed          12     Searching            19%
 Gold            598653   Burden  222.9 lbs

 You are the only child of a Vanyarin King.  You have light green eyes,
 straight black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:......+.++... rConf:......+......
rElec:......+.++... Sound:......+......
rFire:+.....+.++... Shard:.............
rCold:......+.++... Nexus:......++.....
rPois:+............ Nethr:.............
rFear:.........+... Chaos:.............
rLite:........+.+.+ Disen:.............
rDark:........+.... S.Dig:+............
rBlnd:........+.... Feath:...........+.

Light:.........++.. Aggrv:.............
Regen:+............ Stea.:.......+...+.
  ESP:.........+... Sear.:.............
Invis:.........+..+ Infra:............+
FrAct:+.........+.. Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:..+....+...+.
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.+...........
 Fear:............. Might:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) The Zweihander 'Gurthang' (3d6) (+13,+17) (+2)
     +2 strength.
     *Slays* dragons.
     Branded with flames, venom.
     Provides resistance to fire, poison.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Slows your metabolism.  Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
     
     Combat info:
     4 blows/round.
     Average damage/hit: 63.5 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, 63.5
     vs. creatures not resistant to poison, 87 vs. dragons, and 40 vs.
     others.
     
b) a Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots (x4) (+17,+9) (+1)
     +1 shooting speed.
     
c) a Ring of Speed (+8)
     +8 speed.
     
d) a Ring of Intelligence (+6)
     +6 intelligence.
     Sustains intelligence.
     
e) an Amulet of Charisma (+4)
     +4 charisma.
     Sustains charisma.
     
f) The Phial of Galadriel
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting light-s
     ensitive creatures.
     Takes 24 to 44 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 98.5%
     
     Radius 3 light.
g) The Full Plate Armour of Isildur [26,+25] (+1)
     +1 constitution.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, confusion, 
     sound, nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
h) The Cloak 'Colannon' [1,+13] (+3)
     +3 stealth, speed.
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it teleports you randomly up to 100 squares away.
     Takes 99 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 98.5%
     
i) The Leather Shield of Celegorm [4,+20]
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, light, dark, 
     blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
j) The Iron Helm of Dor-Lomin [5,+20] (+4)
     +4 strength, dexterity, constitution.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
     Radius 1 light.
k) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' (+5,+5) [1,+10]
     Provides resistance to light.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
     When aimed, it fires a magic missile with damage 3d4.
     Takes 4 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 98.3%
     
     Radius 1 light.
l) The Pair of Leather Boots of Wormtongue (-1,-1) [2,+1] (+3)
     +3 intelligence, dexterity, stealth, speed.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Feather Falling.  
     
     When activated, it teleports you randomly up to 10 squares away.
     Takes 44 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 98.3%
     


  [Character Quiver]

n) 42 Bolts of Flame (1d5) (+9,+8)
     Branded with flames.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 249.6 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, and 
     83.2 vs. others.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
o) 34 Bolts of Slay Evil (1d5) (+10,+9)
     Slays evil creatures.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 174.7 vs. evil creatures, and 87.3 vs. others.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
p) 15 Bolts of Slay Evil (1d5) (+8,+7)
     Slays evil creatures.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 156.5 vs. evil creatures, and 78.3 vs. others.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
q) 20 Bolts of Venom (1d5) (+7,+9)
     Branded with venom.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 259.5 vs. creatures not resistant to poison, 
     and 86.5 vs. others.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
r) (nothing)
s) (nothing)
t) (nothing)
u) (nothing)
v) (nothing)
w) (nothing)


  [Character Inventory]

a) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1!d!x!k}
b) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2!d!x!k}
c) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3!d!x!k}
d) 6 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4!d!x!k}
e) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices] {@m5!d!x!k}
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
f) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Raal's Tome of Destruction]
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
g) a Book of Magic Spells [Tenser's Transformations]
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
h) 25 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
     
i) a Potion of Restore Life Levels
j) 5 Scrolls of Teleport Level
k) a Scroll of Remove Curse
l) 3 Scrolls of Word of Recall
m) a Rod of Treasure Location
n) 3 Rods of Probing
o) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Stability [6,+9]
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Feather Falling.  
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1!d!x!k}
b) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2!d!x!k}
c) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3!d!x!k}
d) a Book of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4!d!x!k}
e) 86 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
     
f) 7 Potions of Healing
     
g) a Potion of *Healing*
     It can be thrown at creatures with damaging effect.
     
h) 4 Potions of Restore Mana
i) 5 Potions of Enlightenment
j) 10 Scrolls of Teleport Level
k) 13 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
l) 8 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Dam
m) 3 Scrolls of *Destruction*
n) a Staff of Earthquakes (6 charges)
     
o) a Staff of *Destruction* (2 charges)
     
p) a Staff of the Magi (3 charges)
     
q) The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir' [4,+20] (+4)
     +4 stealth.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, dark, nether.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
r) The Small Metal Shield of Thorin [4,+25] (+4)
     +4 strength, constitution.
     Provides immunity to acid.
     Provides resistance to fear, sound, chaos.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
s) The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil [2,+10] (+2)
     +2 intelligence, wisdom.
     Provides resistance to blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Grants telepathy.  
     
t) The Metal Cap of Thengel [3,+12] (+3)
     +3 wisdom, charisma.
     Provides resistance to confusion.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
u) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg' (+8,+8) [1,+15] (+2)
     +2 strength, constitution.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     


============================================================
                   CHAR.
|   TURN  | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
         1      0'    1   Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
      2821      0'    1   Killed Farmer Maggot
      6995     50'    2   Reached level 2
     12231    100'    3   Reached level 3
     17688    100'    4   Reached level 4
     31234    100'    4   Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
     35144    100'    4   Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
     38224    100'    5   Reached level 5
     54508    100'    6   Reached level 6
     80903    300'    7   Reached level 7
     89546    300'    8   Reached level 8
    112163    350'    9   Reached level 9
    274253    350'   10   Reached level 10
    293987    400'   11   Reached level 11
    323462    400'   12   Reached level 12
    369065    400'   13   Reached level 13
    415740    450'   14   Reached level 14
    459695    450'   14   Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
    459720    450'   14   Found The Cloak 'Colannon'
    459734    450'   14   Found The Phial of Galadriel
    466681    500'   15   Reached level 15
    533820    500'   16   Reached level 16
    538947    500'   16   Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
    586059    550'   16   Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
    613798    550'   17   Reached level 17
    618425    600'   17   Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
    670427    600'   18   Reached level 18
    673162    600'   18   Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
    735587    750'   19   Reached level 19
    753511    750'   19   Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
    787370    800'   20   Reached level 20
    797394    850'   20   Killed Brodda, the Easterling
    828432      0'   21   Reached level 21
    904862    950'   22   Reached level 22
    924015    950'   23   Reached level 23
    932874    950'   23   Killed Nar, the Dwarf
    979796   1100'   24   Reached level 24
   1008556   1150'   25   Reached level 25
   1022526   1200'   25   Killed Ibun, Son of Mim
   1031823   1200'   25   Found The Metal Cap of Thengel
   1034497   1200'   25   Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
   1059003   1250'   25   Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
   1059713   1250'   25   Found The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir'
   1074990   1400'   26   Reached level 26
   1079254   1400'   26   Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
   1104560   1500'   26   Found The Leather Shield of Celegorm
   1114758   1600'   26   Killed Angamaite of Umbar
   1115258   1600'   26   Found The Dagger 'Dethanc' (LOST)
   1126780   1750'   27   Reached level 27
   1130331   1750'   27   Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
   1133471   1750'   27   Killed Lugdush, the Uruk
   1167207   1750'   28   Reached level 28
   1195790   1750'   29   Reached level 29
   1199315   1750'   29   Killed Tom the Stone Troll
   1199571   1750'   29   Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurhach' (LOST)
   1226680   1750'   29   Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
   1233190   1750'   29   Found The Lance of Eorlingas (LOST)
   1246389   1750'   30   Reached level 30
   1369691   1800'   30   Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
   1376760   1800'   30   Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
   1378469   1800'   31   Reached level 31
   1389247   1800'   31   Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim'
   1390647   1800'   31   Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
   1390674   1800'   31   Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg'
   1400670   1800'   31   Found The Dagger 'Nimthanc' (LOST)
   1501027   1800'   31   Killed Bert the Stone Troll
   1562922   1800'   31   Killed Ariel, Queen of Air
   1565939   1800'   31   Found The Zweihander 'Gurthang'
   1597009   1800'   31   Found The Broad Sword 'Glamdring' (LOST)
   1608547   1900'   31   Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurnen' (LOST)
   2156832   1950'   32   Reached level 32
   2158577   1950'   32   Found The Beaked Axe of Theoden (LOST)
   2170932   2000'   32   Killed Mim, Betrayer of Turin
   2170965   2000'   32   Found The Full Plate Armour of Isildur
   2178579   2000'   32   Killed Rogrog the Black Troll
   2187637   2000'   33   Reached level 33
   2194122   2000'   33   Killed Smeagol
   2194144   2000'   33   Found The Rapier 'Careth Asdriag' (LOST)
   2209969   2000'   33   Killed Uvatha the Horseman
   2213927   2000'   33   Killed Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang
   2302288   2200'   34   Reached level 34
   2310746   2200'   34   Found The Broad Axe 'Barukkheled' (LOST)
   2320652   2250'   34   Killed Ugluk, the Uruk
   2323045   2250'   34   Killed Adunaphel the Quiet
   2338731   2250'   34   Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Pauraegen' (LOST)
   2345565   2300'   34   Found The Iron Helm of Dor-Lomin
   2348963   2300'   34   Found The Leather Scale Mail 'Thalkettoth' (LOST)
   2350019   2300'   34   Killed Ulfang the Black
   2364385   2400'   35   Reached level 35
   2365746   2400'   35   Killed The Queen Ant
   2366051   2400'   35   Found The Pair of Leather Boots of Wormtongue
   2376285   2550'   35   Killed Scatha the Worm
   2383949   2600'   35   Killed Akhorahil the Blind
   2386338   2600'   35   Found The Small Metal Shield of Thorin
   2396421   2700'   35   Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks
   2404078   2750'   35   Killed Medusa, the Gorgon
   2410636   2800'   36   Reached level 36
   2414339   2800'   36   Killed Khim, Son of Mim
   2420856   2850'   36   Found The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil


  [Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses        : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize some of the artifacts (beta)       : no  (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall            : no  (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home              : no  (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor             : no  (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location       : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations       : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups        : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes    : no  (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses   : no  (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no  (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation             : no  (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation            : no  (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation            : no  (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else              : no  (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info            : no  (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death           : no  (score_live)

Last edited by Nameless; June 23, 2010 at 18:54.
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Old June 23, 2010, 20:59   #25
Icon
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12
Icon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Rift is the best of the lot, by far. It is a gravity attack, not teleport other. They don't go too far away. It is a beam, so you get everything in a corridor. You are shooting Ancalagon down a corridor, he summons, you keep rifting until the interlopers blocking your shots are displaced. You can teleport them if they come back from another direction.
Another grand benefit is that if the target gets sent away to a place where there is no easy path to you, you can grab a quick rest and reset your mana.

Of course this may not be effective against quick healers.
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Old June 23, 2010, 21:20   #26
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Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
The summoner uniques have been nastier than the rest, though, so maybe Rift is what I've been looking for without realizing it. My intial test was on a pack of demons, and when they were teleported out of the corridor they were in and teleported into the room I was standing in (scattered, no less) it was rather a flat note, to me. I'll poke at it some more.
Better for you to be standing in the corridor as well when you use Rift.

Monday night I had an annoying combination of nasties (Dwar, Dog Lord of Waw and a demilich I think) that were quite happily shrugging off all my other attacks. Rift however managed to do the damage, and quite happily in a beam. The downside was that my mana pool was nowhere near sufficient to beam them down in one go through. As I really prefer to save my potions of Restore Mana for emergencies, I availed myself of the times I teleported them away to move off and rest back up to full mana before manuevering so as to get their attention.

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Does dazing (Shock Wave, Ice Storm) affect enemy spellcasting in any way (dazed/more dazed) or is this simply a stun that can be layered on?
Dazed things don't take actions. I am unsure if "more dazed" really means anything.


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Maxing CON has gotten me well over 400HP. Not enough to sneeze at big breathers, but with base resists double-resisted and most (but not all) high resists covered, I've done all right so far. Two (gaping) holes I'd really like to plug are nether (which shows up in nether bolts/balls regularly now) and chaos, but I haven't gotten a way to do it without losing something else I don't wish to lose. Unfortunately, there ARE a few things that breath nether and chaos as well. I've seen them on the way down, and my only recourse is Teleport Other and look for a way off the level. (I love the 0% failure rate. I could kiss it. Really.)
Continue to avoid them. I have resist Nether and Chaos on my mage and I am still careful around such things, especially when they show up in groups as hounds in particular seem to be fond of sneezing fits.

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I have all of these - permanant speed is currently running at +12, up to +22 with Haste, but that starts to become "average" and "expected" at around 3000' according to the old scrolls of wisdom...
I'm envious, being at +7/+17.

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I have been. There are a few exceptions. If the Rod of Probing turns up a pure-melee monster, I can handle those. Phase door, haste, and a bevy of ranged spells makes that fight somewhat lopsided, if lengthy. The addition of large damage (from Rift) and daze (Ice Storm/Shock Wave) looks to make them a little less tedious.
Pure melee monsters that do not pack drain of some sort I tend to melee down. I suspect that is something I shouldn't be doing though.
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Old June 24, 2010, 00:39   #27
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Better for you to be standing in the corridor as well when you use Rift.
It was a short corridor. I've chalked it up as a bad test. I can rift most things dead, but it's a major MP sink to do so.

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As I really prefer to save my potions of Restore Mana for emergencies, I availed myself of the times I teleported them away to move off and rest back up to full mana before manuevering so as to get their attention.
I haven't started finding these "in depth" yet, so the only ones I've seen have been in the BM. I'm loathe to take them with me, as I routinely lose a potion or two to frost, and losing those would be bad. (YEs, worse if I never get to use them, but the trick is never getting into a situation where I need them until I'm ready to carry them for an end-game unique hunt.

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Dazed things don't take actions. I am unsure if "more dazed" really means anything.
Yeah, I've used a combination of daze, speed and phase to work a few things over. I was curious if enemies have a limited recovery rate from dazing, allowing you to use some spells to daze them more often and faster than they recover, effectively locking them down. I haven't seen any references to this anywhere, though. Some foes appear to be more sensitive to it than others, but I can't be certain of this.

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Continue to avoid them. I have resist Nether and Chaos on my mage and I am still careful around such things, especially when they show up in groups as hounds in particular seem to be fond of sneezing fits.
I don't have any choice. Even though I'm over 500HP now, a big nether or chaos breahter could conceivably kill me outright. Anything that can breathe these is an automatic teleport other.

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I'm envious, being at +7/+17.
The BM Ring of Speed and the early cloak of Colannon were game changers. I was up to a Heroic level of stealth as well, and with the speed, that made the 1000'-3000' run fairly trivial. I can still stealth right up to a unique and fire off a rod of probing before making a getaway. Few of them ever wake up.

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Pure melee monsters that do not pack drain of some sort I tend to melee down. I suspect that is something I shouldn't be doing though.
Dunno. I'm up to 4 blows a round, so most things that don't have a follow on effect (burn/freeze/acid/drain/etc.) or really large damage I melee down. This includes some forms of hounds (double resist on base types) and orcs/trolls, as they don't live through a single round and have a hard time hitting back.

Caveat: Not in groups. I don't want to run the risk that a group of foes all get lucky. I take my melee targets like I take my naps: One at a time.

Last edited by Nameless; June 24, 2010 at 02:17.
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Old June 24, 2010, 02:58   #28
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Per the 3.1.1 source (I should really download 3.1.2...laaaaazy), this is how stunning monsters works:

A stunned monster, each time they get an action, recovers if 1d5000 <= (monster level)^2. So any monster native to dungeon level 71 or lower will automatically recover from stun the first chance they get; monsters native to dungeon level 30 have an 18% chance of recovering from stun. This doesn't depend on how heavily-stunned they are.

If the monster doesn't make this saving throw, then their level of stunned-ness decreases by 1 and they don't act.

The stun counter is increased when the monster is hit by a stunning attack they do not resist. It can increase by a maximum of 200 in one hit, but there appears to be no actual cap. However, if the monster is already stunned, then any increase is halved, and besides, actual stun amounts are much lower:

Ice, Force: (d15 + 1) / (r + 1)
Sound: (d15 + 10 + r) / (r + 1)

"r" here is, I think, the distance of the monster from the center of the effect. I find it interesting that the numerator on sound stun amounts actually increases as the monster gets further away, instead of it just having a decreased distance-based mitigation. Note that stun amounts have no relation to how much damage is dealt; if you had an explosive breeder that breathed force for 1 damage, you could fight near it and effectively shut down your actually significant enemies (dunno what effect this would have on you, though; player stun works differently and is rather more complicated).
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Old June 24, 2010, 03:17   #29
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Updated dump placed out on the ladder, for ease of use.

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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
A stunned monster, each time they get an action, recovers if 1d5000 <= (monster level)^2. So any monster native to dungeon level 71 or lower will automatically recover from stun the first chance they get; monsters native to dungeon level 30 have an 18% chance of recovering from stun. This doesn't depend on how heavily-stunned they are. If the monster doesn't make this saving throw, then their level of stunned-ness decreases by 1 and they don't act.
Short Version: Dazing foes is not going to be widely useful for very much longer. This explains why I've seen more and more of them as I've gone down, and makes some sense - don't want the Big Bads getting dazed to death by mages with big mana pools.

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if you had an explosive breeder that breathed force for 1 damage, you could fight near it and effectively shut down your actually significant enemies (dunno what effect this would have on you, though; player stun works differently and is rather more complicated).
Thou shalt not suffer a breeder to live.
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Old June 24, 2010, 21:51   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Note that stun amounts have no relation to how much damage is dealt; if you had an explosive breeder that breathed force for 1 damage, you could fight near it and effectively shut down your actually significant enemies (dunno what effect this would have on you, though; player stun works differently and is rather more complicated).
Even more certain instant death than melee with a Grand Master Mystic.

Stun counter 200+ for the player is essentially Paralysis with no preventative.
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