A varient with more traditional save options?

[Zyphyr]

There are a number of very old games with permadeath. Sure, it is unusual at best but it is still traditional.

[Atarlost]

But everyone knew what the OP was talking about.

Let's try an analogy. In Europe it it traditional to cook meat, but there's one French dish, the name of which I can't recall at the moment, which involves raw beef. Raw beef is a tradition, but the tradition is to cook the stuff until any bacteria are dead.

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by Atarlost

But everyone knew what the OP was talking about.

Let's try an analogy. In Europe it it traditional to cook meat, but there's one French dish, the name of which I can't recall at the moment, which involves raw beef. Raw beef is a tradition, but the tradition is to cook the stuff until any bacteria are dead.

Steak hachette?

[Nolendil]

"Steak haché" (not "hachette", this one means "small axe" ^^ ) is usually cooked.
"Steak tartare" is raw meat however but I'm not sure it's typicaly french.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Atarlost

Permadeath is used by very few non-rougelike games. Going back to e.g. Ultima and I think Zork and Adventure. I can't think of anything that lets you save, but not load a save after death that isn't a rougelike. Permadeath is very nonstandard.

In the context of being on an Angband forum, though, one might expect "traditional" to mean "traditional for Angband".

Also, I was going to say something about steak tartare being Moulin Rougelike, but I think that's a bad idea.

[Cauldron]

Originally Posted by Nolendil

"Steak haché" (not "hachette", this one means "small axe" ^^ ) is usually cooked.
"Steak tartare" is raw meat however but I'm not sure it's typicaly french.

And I think it's usually ground steak; i.e. mechanically pre-chewed.
Also, according to Wikipedia, could be horse. Yummy.

[Nolendil]

Originally Posted by Cauldron

And I think it's usually ground steak; i.e. mechanically pre-chewed.

"Steak haché" means "ground steak".
And it's used in "steak tartare"
Horse steak can probably be found in some restaurant but I think I only found this once, it's almost always beef.

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by Atarlost

Cheat death is an unsatisfying way to do things. With a traditional save/load system you can treat tough battles as repeatable puzzles and experiment with ways to overcome them. With cheat death you still only get one chance to fight each battle.

I doubt you can get Takkaria to agree, but there is a pretty clean solution using minor mods to current V. Currently the game autosaves on a new level. Change things so that is saves the turn before you take the stairs, and that instead of overwriting the savefile it overwrites a different file "autosave". Further, store in the savefile the number of savescums, which is incremented by 1 when writing the autosave file. Then you can load the autosave at any time, but in your dumps and/or score or whatever it automatically keeps track of the number of files you savescummed.

That allows you to replay entire levels, which should be good enough for "treat tough battles as repeatable puzzles" without introducing the cheese of varying your attacks to get better dice rolls. The reason for saving before descent is to allow replayability when descent results in instakill, but maybe that shouldn't matter.

[Jude]

I think if you do start savescumming you may find it ruins the fun. For me, what I like about these games is that after like 8 years of playing, I've still come nowhere close to winning. I think if I would savescum my way to the bottom, the game would lose its fun.

Heck, if I ever win, maybe it will lose its fun too...but I doubt it, and I also am not sure if I ever will get around to winning.