Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 15, 2011, 21:10   #11
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
So would this mean assigning base items to the existing jewelery? Would Narya, for instance, become an art based on a Ring of Flames?
No - base items aren't chosen for "special" artifacts. It currently goes like this:

1. Check for "special" artifact.

2. Choose base item.

3. Check for (a) good (b) great (c) non-special artifact.

All we'd do is fold 3(c) into 1. So for randarts, any base item would be possible for any standart. Ringil could become a ring of flames, and Narya could become a cloak.
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15, 2011, 21:20   #12
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Antoine: No, current "special" artifacts would continue to be generated without base types beyond "ring", "amulet", etc. The same would apply to "ordinary" artifacts too, though.

Basically, instead of generating an item type and then deciding that the quality level of the item should be artifact, we generate an artifact and use its declared base type to describe it.

Regarding Magnate's comments on randarts: currently, randart jewelry/lightsources are always based on standart jewelry/lightsources. That's why there's always 1 randart phial, which is very similar to the standart phial. If we break the special/ordinary artifact delineation, then all artifacts are just artifacts, and they could "cross-pollinate", so to speak -- standarts that are equipment can become jewelry/lightsource randarts, and vice versa. I don't think it'd be valid to say that the randart version of Ringil could be based on a Ring of Flames (since no artifact is based on a specific subtype of jewelry, just on the ring/amulet/lightsource categories), but it would be to say that the randart version of Ringil could be a ring.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15, 2011, 21:31   #13
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Antoine: No, current "special" artifacts would continue to be generated without base types beyond "ring", "amulet", etc. The same would apply to "ordinary" artifacts too, though.

Basically, instead of generating an item type and then deciding that the quality level of the item should be artifact, we generate an artifact and use its declared base type to describe it.

Regarding Magnate's comments on randarts: currently, randart jewelry/lightsources are always based on standart jewelry/lightsources. That's why there's always 1 randart phial, which is very similar to the standart phial. If we break the special/ordinary artifact delineation, then all artifacts are just artifacts, and they could "cross-pollinate", so to speak -- standarts that are equipment can become jewelry/lightsource randarts, and vice versa. I don't think it'd be valid to say that the randart version of Ringil could be based on a Ring of Flames (since no artifact is based on a specific subtype of jewelry, just on the ring/amulet/lightsource categories), but it would be to say that the randart version of Ringil could be a ring.
Well that depends. The randart generator currently looks through object.txt for a base item, so an immediate implementation would indeed allow specific jewelry items to be chosen as base items. But since it was written, we have now introduced object_base.txt, which is almost certainly a better starting point for a randart generator. When I get to the rewrite, I'll switch to that, which means that the base item chosen would be "ring" rather than "ring of something".
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15, 2011, 22:20   #14
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

I had noticed object_base before but hadn't really investigated it. It looks like a set of templates for different base object types. Very nice for avoiding duplication (e.g. by having to specify that every single bladed weapon can be melted), but how would you propose using it for randarts?

Random thought: if artifacts work as one-off templates applied to base items, then themed artifacts could work by layering templates. Choose a base item. Make a randart template. Apply the template to the item. Now use the resulting output as input (i.e. a new template) to the generator a a few more times. That could give you results like the *thancs (all 2d4 (+4,+6) daggers) or Amrod and Amras (both shortbows with three elemental resistances).

This has more to do with the mechanics of deciding what artifacts look like than it does with deciding when to make them, though.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16, 2011, 09:37   #15
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I had noticed object_base before but hadn't really investigated it. It looks like a set of templates for different base object types. Very nice for avoiding duplication (e.g. by having to specify that every single bladed weapon can be melted), but how would you propose using it for randarts?
Well, it can't quite be used as-is, but my vague thought is that the less specified about the beginning of a randart, the better. object_base defines tvals but not svals, opening up the possibility of creating artifacts that are not based on any existing svals and have nothing predefined except the flags common to all items of that tval.

It's not immediately clear that that's better than using object.txt though, so it needs some more thought.
Quote:
Random thought: if artifacts work as one-off templates applied to base items, then themed artifacts could work by layering templates. Choose a base item. Make a randart template. Apply the template to the item. Now use the resulting output as input (i.e. a new template) to the generator a a few more times. That could give you results like the *thancs (all 2d4 (+4,+6) daggers) or Amrod and Amras (both shortbows with three elemental resistances).

This has more to do with the mechanics of deciding what artifacts look like than it does with deciding when to make them, though.
Indeed. My ideas for themed randarts are quite similar, involving one or more templates applied to an empty item. One day the templates will be in an edit file ...
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
T-Engine4 / ToME4 beta16 "World Wide Tome" unleashed! DarkGod ToME 1 December 24, 2010 23:29
"Great" drops replaced by "good" drops in vaults: bug or feature? PowerWyrm Vanilla 14 February 27, 2010 16:54
Feature request: make "summon unique" do nothing when there are no uniques bron Vanilla 11 December 22, 2009 17:25
"repeat" Command just little bit "smarter" ClaytonAguiar Vanilla 8 June 17, 2009 16:01
Question about "special" feelings Neuro Vanilla 9 June 23, 2008 23:37


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.