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Old August 15, 2010, 21:11   #1
Fendell Orcbane
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Randarts...

I've been thinking about Randart games for awhile and I'm pretty ambivalent about them. On one had they would seem cool if you are getting bored with V. On the other had I sort of don't feel that they are fair, because how can you compare your character with other characters that are playing standard V? Granted this could be said for different versions as well.

So that is how I feel, but how do the rest of you feel on this matter?
And having said all that I do know that its the player and not his magic items that win or lose the game. Hell I died with both Ringil and Feanor. How does that happen? But then again the very next game I found The One Ring: ) which in my opinion is pretty much the best thing that I've ever had.
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Old August 15, 2010, 21:36   #2
Taha
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Most randart games seem harder than normal artifact games. I like it for the variations that keep things interesting.

But the whole concepts of fair and comparable don't apply to this game anyway. Luck plays such a huge role; if you can find feanor and ringil in one game, how do you compare that to a game where you find no boots of speed until level 90? It's just about making do with what you find.
________
BLCKPOIZEN

Last edited by Taha; August 14, 2011 at 14:52.
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Old August 15, 2010, 22:41   #3
PowerDiver
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Your dumps are from 3.1.2v2, in which I believe randarts had an artificial extra rarity put on them. That may be why you find the games harder.

If you look at my most recent dump, I have base speed+40 and 3 immunities and a 6d6 slay evil weapon with all but rChaos covered. That's not atypical for randart games.

I think randart games are generally easier, but occasionally harder, than standart games, now that the extra rarity has been removed.
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Old August 15, 2010, 23:08   #4
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fendell Orcbane View Post
I've been thinking about Randart games for awhile and I'm pretty ambivalent about them. On one had they would seem cool if you are getting bored with V. On the other had I sort of don't feel that they are fair, because how can you compare your character with other characters that are playing standard V? Granted this could be said for different versions as well.
And why is it necessary that you be able to compare your character with other characters? The only times we compete, we do so using the same savefile, and thus the same set of artifacts. Everything else is personal.
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Old August 15, 2010, 23:49   #5
Fendell Orcbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
And why is it necessary that you be able to compare your character with other characters? The only times we compete, we do so using the same savefile, and thus the same set of artifacts. Everything else is personal.
Well there is a ladder and all. I do agree that it is a personal thing but on the other hand it is a way to judge how far you have come or how far you have to go in terms of playing skill.
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Old August 16, 2010, 03:16   #6
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fendell Orcbane View Post
Well there is a ladder and all. I do agree that it is a personal thing but on the other hand it is a way to judge how far you have come or how far you have to go in terms of playing skill.
I'm not willing to sacrifice randarts just so that a third-party website can compare characters more "fairly". Especially since everything in the game still comes down to the RNG by a massive degree.

That said, randarts should still be of comparable power to standarts. They should just be, yannow, random.
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Old August 16, 2010, 05:53   #7
ewert
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Aside from weapons, I actually think standarts are maybe easier than randarts.

Now WEAPONS, that is where some sickening randart stuff happens.

PS. Pre-statgain +8 wis/speed boots for half-troll paladin with rDis. I thought I was gonna wear that forever. Then found +9wis/speed with rDis, mwahahaha (and some low stuff 1-2 on both too)
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Old August 31, 2010, 20:54   #8
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
Aside from weapons, I actually think standarts are maybe easier than randarts.

Now WEAPONS, that is where some sickening randart stuff happens.

PS. Pre-statgain +8 wis/speed boots for half-troll paladin with rDis. I thought I was gonna wear that forever. Then found +9wis/speed with rDis, mwahahaha (and some low stuff 1-2 on both too)
You found TWO pairs of boots with +8 or +9 WIS *and* speed, in the same game?? Weird.

Anyway, Derakon is right, the total power of a set of randarts should be within 3% of the total power of the standard artifact set, so feel free to compare as much as you like. Whether you're lucky enough to *find* that 6d6 Morgoth-killer or those +9 WIS/Speed boots is another matter ... but that's no different to comparing one game where you find Ringil at 1000' to another one where you don't ...
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Old August 31, 2010, 22:27   #9
ewert
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And the 2nd pair of +9 had also good +hit +dmg. =P For paladin. =P It was just too nutty.
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Old September 1, 2010, 02:18   #10
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
You found TWO pairs of boots with +8 or +9 WIS *and* speed, in the same game?? Weird.

Anyway, Derakon is right, the total power of a set of randarts should be within 3% of the total power of the standard artifact set, so feel free to compare as much as you like. Whether you're lucky enough to *find* that 6d6 Morgoth-killer or those +9 WIS/Speed boots is another matter ... but that's no different to comparing one game where you find Ringil at 1000' to another one where you don't ...
Here are the boots from my most recent game. There are also 2 with over +8 Wis and Speed:


The Pair of Leather Boots of Menya [2,+7]
-----------------------------------------
+8 wisdom, tunneling, speed.
Provides resistance to acid, cold.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Prevents paralysis.


Min Level 27, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 214, 1.8 lbs


The Pair of Mithril Shod Boots of Amenor [8,+21]
------------------------------------------------
+3 wisdom, constitution.
Provides immunity to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

When activated, it detects traps nearby.
Takes 49 to 54 turns to recharge.


Min Level 20, Max Level 124, Generation chance 78, Power 156, 3.2 lbs


The Pair of Leather Boots of Lothith (+4,+2) [2,+19]
----------------------------------------------------
+13 speed.
Provides resistance to fire, confusion, nether.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Aggravates creatures nearby.

When aimed, it grants fire resistance for d20+20 turns and creates a fire ball of
damage 80.
Takes 90 to 110 turns to recharge.


Min Level 40, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 317, 2.0 lbs


The Pair of Leather Boots 'Gaere' [2,+18]
-----------------------------------------
+11 wisdom, speed.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.


Min Level 32, Max Level 127, Generation chance 4, Power 256, 2.0 lbs


The Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Uniel [7,+16]
---------------------------------------------
+7 speed.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Sustains your life force.


Min Level 19, Max Level 122, Generation chance 82, Power 153, 6.0 lbs


The Pair of Leather Boots of Embangwar (+8,+0) [2,+21]
------------------------------------------------------
+13 tunneling, speed.
Provides resistance to chaos.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.


Min Level 38, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 303, 2.0 lbs


dump here:
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10561

I was a priest, so the +11 wis/speed boots came in very handy.

edit: There was also a +10 speed / wis weapon, a +13 speed / strength weapon, a +11 speed / wis ring and a +10 speed amulet

Last edited by fizzix; September 1, 2010 at 03:03.
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